22 ms·

Hello system, a FreeBSD-based OS designed to resemble Mac

319 points by gautamcgoel 6y ago

the-dude 6y ago
For a graphical system, screenshots are hard to find.
- duckerude 6y ago
  I found one: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/helloSystem/hello/master/screenshots/20201229-desktop.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/helloSystem/hello/master/s...
- rvz 6y ago
  Took me a second to find at least one screenshot: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/user/getting-started.html https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/user/getting-started.html But you're actually right though. I think that the screenshots are best presented on the front-page.
  - the-dude 6y ago
    I am a bit ashamed I missed that one. Thanks for the pointer.
    - bee_rider 6y ago
      It was the only screenshot I could find, it is a bit minimal, and it requires scrolling down the page (which seems like a lazy complaint, but c'mon, the graphics are the whole point of this project, put it front-and-center!) Your shame is rejected, they are the ones who messed up.
- gautamcgoel 6y ago
  Plenty of screenshots here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/hello-system-freebsd-os/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/hel...
  - the-dude 6y ago
    Are you involved in the project? Isn't this a massive copyright infringement on Apple's design?
    - mistrial9 6y ago
      I am using ctl-c ctl-v ctl-x and ctl-z "undo" right now, in 2021. These keyboard shortcuts and their menu-driven actions were definitely claimed as protected interface by Apple long ago. Apple's claims to user-interface control are wearing thin after close to four decades, no?
      - blackrock 6y ago
        Apple claims they own the rounded corners. Pay up if you want to use it.
        grahamjperrin 6y ago
        Genuinely? https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2021/02/12/freebsd_that_looks_like_macos/#c_4203943 https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2021/02/12/freebsd_... was thought to be a joke …
    - rangoon626 6y ago
      Have a look at Big Sur, then check out Deepin, then have a look again at Big Sur.
      - Macha 6y ago
        Or if you claim that Deepin is too obscure to have influenced OS X, Gnome 3.
        machello13 6y ago
        I mean this in the nicest way, but are you seriously suggesting Apple is looking to the open-source Linux community for UI design ideas? Isn't it much more likely the trend is just industry-wide, and Apple is part of it as much as Gnome is? Apple's own UI has been moving in that direction for years anyway before Big Sur.
- barrenko 6y ago
  This always the case with open-source projects. It would help with getting new users.
macksd 6y ago
This is exciting - I hope it gets momentum. I used to use BSD on my laptop and although it was a bit less convenient than Linux in terms of hardware support, etc. I really loved the philosophy. Some of the desktop-oriented distributions died out and have been replaced by others, so it's not an ecosystem I feel comfortable really investing my time in. But my wife loves the look and feel of Mac OS, and has just grown frustrated with a few things lately that are obviously just restricting users to squeeze them to more expensive products or locking them in to Apple's ecosystem. She's rarely cared much about my FOSS hobby before but something like this would actually appeal to her, I think.
- reachtarunhere 6y ago
  If you are open to Linux you might find this interesting https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
  - KeyBoardG 6y ago
    This. I wonder how much work it would take to get the Pantheon desktop running on FreeBSD if they wanted that as the base.
  - neilalexander 6y ago
    If there was a way to have the Pantheon desktop experience of elementaryOS on BSD or Illumos without having to build it myself, I’d be there in a heartbeat.
    - grahamjperrin 6y ago
      Excluding a global menu, yes?
- whynotminot 6y ago
  Just curious, what do you feel is squeezing you to a more expensive product lately? I still use a 2012 Mac mini from time to time. It recently stopped getting the latest OS upgrades, but getting 8ish years out of a product before being gently pushed to upgrade doesn't strike me as all that unreasonable or money-grabbing.
krylon 6y ago
> System Requirements: VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution I do not mean to be snarky, but are there actual displays that have a lower resolution these days? I mean, even my phone - which is not high-end at all, at least by central European standards - has 1280x720. I do have an Asus EeePC netbook with a 1024x600 display, but that is kind of a special case (also, it is 12 years old).
- xtracto 6y ago
  > I do have an Asus EeePC netbook with a 1024x600 display, but that is kind of a special case Hehe, I have one of those which I bought in Germany also like 12 years ago. They were all the rage at that time and the darn thing is still kicking ass. It is good for the odd Windows stuff that I have to do, and also serves as the CPU of my arcade build.
- xu_ituairo 6y ago
  I read it as just stating the minimum hardware needed to successfully run this. I don’t imagine them making it artificially higher, just because, would serve a purpose.
  - krylon 6y ago
    Good point.
  - chungus_khan 6y ago
    A lot of these straight up just exist so the creator has a sign to tap (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRYYGcWV4AAF2E4.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRYYGcWV4AAF2E4.jpg) when people try to file bug reports for unsupported oddball configurations.
- WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
  A plenty of 800x450 screens out there for the ilk of Raspberry Pi.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  If you're running this is a virtual machine like it appears that the OS developer is, chances are that you'll be using a smaller resolution than what your screen can handle.
protomyth 6y ago
Anyone know the license of the code? I would assume BSD, but that assumption hasn't been true of some other projects.
- tyingq 6y ago
  There's a license file in the ISO repo, which I assume would cover most or all of the project. 3-Clause BSD: https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/blob/experimental/LICENSE https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/blob/experimental/LICENSE
CGamesPlay 6y ago
Sounds cool, although it still seems very early. Will keyboard shortcuts be primarily using Control or Super? As strange as it sounds, Control-driven keyboard shortcuts are one of the main things I think about every time I consider switching (and this is almost entirely because of the conflict of Control-C in the terminal).
- coliveira 6y ago
  In the Mac, terminal apps use Control-C without any problems. Only native Mac apps use the Command (Apple) key, so I see no conflict between these two key combinations.
  - spockz 6y ago
    Command-C is copy basically everywhere in macOS. Even in electron apps and qt apps. I haven’t come across an app in about 10 years which used Ctrl-c for copy.
    - sneak 6y ago
      https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/7332 https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/7332
- 1996 6y ago
  > Will keyboard shortcuts be primarily using Control or Super? On linux, Super as the shortcut for window operation is gaining ground, leaving Control and Alt for the other shortcuts. Control is idea for the text shortcuts (emacs: Ctrl-A for beginning, E for end etc), and Alt for the menus (ex: Alt-F for files) even if there are a lot of crossovers (ex: Ctrl-F for find) > this is almost entirely because of the conflict of Control-C in the terminal I would suggest you remap intr to ^X : stty intr ^X : the X and C keys are very close, so it becomes natural very quickly I've seen quite a few people doing it, it inspired me to do the same: it very quickly becomes natural, far more that Shift-Ctrl-C https://askubuntu.com/questions/1207183/how-to-map-keys-on-linux-like-my-mac-machine https://askubuntu.com/questions/1207183/how-to-map-keys-on-l...
Toutouxc 6y ago
This feels like one of the "we have X at home" memes. The UI is all over the place.
- xtracto 6y ago
  The problem with all these Linux/BSD attempts at mimicking the Mac is that due to the nature of the open source components, they are mostly able to mimic the "look" but never the feel. The one thing that makes OSX different even from Windows is the way it "feels" when you are using it. And the simple things you can achieve in a very simple and intuitive matter. I just stumbled upon an example some days ago, when I needed to add a screenshot image to a PDF. It was surprisingly easy in the Mac: Double click the PDF to open it in preview, double click the image to open it in preview and then drag the file icon of the image into the pages view of the PDF. And the image is inserted as a page in the PDF without any issues. To do that on Windows or Linux (I use Mint in my PC) I think I'll have to print the Image as a PDF and then use some other software to "stitch" the two files together. And like that there are a lot of other UX small things that make for a more pleasant experience in the Mac, particularly for end users.
  - aduitsis 6y ago
    My favourite small detail on the Mac, is how the clipboard interacts with the filesystem. You can select some text, drag it into the Desktop and it will become a .Clipping. Now, if you drag and drop that clipping into a text field (e.g. textedit), it will be as if it was pasted.
    - anthk 6y ago
      KDE used to work like that too.
      - heavyset_go 6y ago
        It still does.
    - hamburglar 6y ago
rangoon626 6y ago
I really appreciate seeing someone creating their own interface instead of re-skinning the popular shells. If the devs out there working on this see this thread, great work!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
1_player 6y ago
Brought to you by the creator of AppImage. https://medium.com/@probonopd/hello-lets-make-a-freebsd-for-mere-mortals-41b8f93ba075 https://medium.com/@probonopd/hello-lets-make-a-freebsd-for-...
- diggernet 6y ago
  And irdb. http://www.irdb.tk/ http://www.irdb.tk/
  - trenchgun 6y ago
    Yes. This project has a much higher probability for success than baseline.
mikeiz404 6y ago
Video walkthrough: https://youtu.be/PlPTVbhrKYM https://youtu.be/PlPTVbhrKYM
zerof1l 6y ago
It may be appealing enough for a user to try it, but I foresee disappointment. Mac OS is not only about the UI but also about all the software for it. How easy it is to install and use it out of the box. Drivers are never an issue. It is very unlikely that the average user will have to run commands in bash or edit some config files in a text editor. It would be cool if some Linux variant could resemble Mac in this way.
- machiaweliczny 6y ago
  Isn't system76 and PopOS like that?
  - pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
    No, have you used it? The Gnome customizations that go into Pop_OS! are more noticeably influenced by Windows-isms than they resemble Mac-like design (unfortunately -- the Windows influence leads to poorer outcomes that only really make sense when you realize that it's because it matches something in Windows, and not because there's any good from-first-principles rationale for those things).
    - mst 6y ago
      I think they meant "like that" wrt drivers not being an issue and not having to drop out of the GUI.
    - christophilus 6y ago
      It’s my daily driver. I’ve used Windows and OSX heavily for the past 30 years. Pop is not really like either. It’s its own beast, and I rather like it.
  - macksd 6y ago
    No. The Pop! OS UI is basically gnome with tiling. I wouldn't say it draws from either Windows or Mac OS, though I think Gnome takes cues from Mac OS. I wanted to like the tiling, but I always seemed to get lost after a few hours if I was task switching too much, so I just switched back to KDE, which is definitely more Windows-like. For me the draw to System76 is the hardware, knowing the right drivers are already integrated, etc. and their focus on CUDA / TensorFlow tooling. The first 2 are common reasons to like Apple and their philosophy... edit: Oh - like another commenter I misunderstood and thought you were discussing resembling the UI. But no you're talking about integrated hardware and software and I guess that's the point I ended up agreeing with :)
zeckalpha 6y ago
Any plans to partner with prior attempts like Darling/GNUStep/Window Maker/Etoile?
- lproven 6y ago
  AUIU, as someone who's very peripherally connected to both. (I'm an active-ish member of the GNUstep list & in my spare time I've been working on a remix of openSUSE with GNUstep on top; I exchange messages with ProBono about UI design, history, keyboard layouts etc.) The initial version of the HelloSystem was based on GNUstep on FuryBSD. However, apparently -- I did not see any of the comms -- he found the GNUstep people very hard to work with and fairly quickly ditched it and started to roll his own. I must say that I've found the GNUstep folks to be rather intransigent myself. I've found it hard to get answers to simple questions, and when I make small suggestions, they've been mostly been shouted down or ignored. ISTM that the GNUstep project see themselves as building a set of libraries, classes, and tools for building apps. As it happens, as a side-effect of that, they've built a desktop environment as well, but they are not interested in that and don't care about it. Desktops are not their business. They're perfectly happy if others want to use GNUstep to build desktops, though. For reasons that escape me, the GNUstep team are not bothered about ensuring that there are current packages in mainstream Linux distros. This seems to be seen as something for others to do. Etoile violated one of the core rules of FOSS, ISTM: "release early, release often." They never actually put out a release at all in some 15 years of work. You want code? Here's the source: download it and build it yourself. It's a tragic oversight.
  - zeckalpha 6y ago
    I thought http://coreobject.org/ http://coreobject.org/ was refactored out of Etoile?
Gys 6y ago
If you want this, I recommend to also look at https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/ (to me that looks more moderm)
- mmastrac 6y ago
  Elementary looks like a great attempt at a clean desktop. Lots of attention to detail (although odd that they have a gif searching applications on the front page with such a mis-centered text insertion mark!). I really wish that Gnome would go all-in on the single menu bar approach of OSX. I know it's gone back and forth over the years and broken from time-to-time but it really is a much better way to do things versus the windows menu-per-window approach. IMO obviously, but I've used OSX for a decade and Windows/DOS for 20 years before that and top menus have always just been a better experience.
  - themacguffinman 6y ago
    The menu bar is one of the most frustrating parts of macOS for me. It kills Fitts' law when navigating browser tabs, which is what I'm trying to do up there 90% of the time.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Of course, on macOS the tabs go below the titlebar ;)
    - oneeyedpigeon 6y ago
      I think the trade off - benefitting from Fitts law when you need to use a menu AND saving screen estate - is worth it. At least switching tabs is a trivial keyboard shortcut.
- trenchgun 6y ago
  That is based on Linux, not FreeBSD.
- vermaden 6y ago
  No icons on the desktop at elementary.
aminozuur 6y ago
That's a very ugly website for something that's "designed to resemble Mac"
- 1-6 6y ago
  FreeBSD has to have SOME influence!
rbanffy 6y ago
If someone wants to mimic the Mac, I'd suggest they start by making it easy to port apps from macOS. Worst case scenario, you run binaries from macOS directly on your OS. Then it starts making sense to build your own.
- yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
  If the goal is looking and acting like a mac, implementing the entire set of application-facing OS interfaces is far more expensive than just theming and UX work. That said, this has been attempted and supposedly works for simple apps (mostly excluding GUI apps) - https://www.darlinghq.org/ https://www.darlinghq.org/
  - rbanffy 6y ago
    Theming can't go far without the plumbing that underpin Mac applications. You can mimic the look perfectly and it'll still feel odd. You can't run xterm and expect Mac users to think it's how it's supposed to be. You won't get far unless you also emulate the behavior with mixed high-dpi and normal screens and making apps look the same across screen borders.
  - anthk 6y ago
    GNUStep predates darling by several years. They could just modernize GNUStep with a custom style like Etoile but without having to put crap on top. I've seen GNUStep styles which looked pretty modern back in the day, they didn't look like NeXT.
- heavyset_go 6y ago
  This is a big undertaking. Microsoft was able to do this for UWP and iOS[1], but they're a billion dollar company with the man power to accomplish something like that. [1] https://github.com/microsoft/WinObjC https://github.com/microsoft/WinObjC
1-6 6y ago
The cursive animation of 'hello' has the o written wrong. You're supposed to do a clockwise stop at 12 o'clock when drawing the 'o' and do a counter-clockwise back to 12 to meet. Apple would never mess that up especially when Steve Jobs was critical about typography on the early Macs.
peterburkimsher 6y ago
I tried to install Hello, and set up a live USB. The GUI was nice enough to satisfy me. The problems started when I tried to install it. The installer assumes that I want to erase the entire drive. How can an alternative OS expect to be given first-class ownership of the internal drive? It's so... prideful. Many Linux users dual-boot, as do some macOS users on x86. After trying FreeBSD and NomadBSD, in the end I got GhostBSD working. The trackpad works, but sensitivity is way off. It was a fun experiment, and I like the attempts at making a prettier GUI, but this won't be my daily driver.
- grahamjperrin 6y ago
  > … How can an alternative OS expect to be given first-class ownership of the internal drive? It's so … … so 0.4. Allow installation of FreeBSD to a partition – not taking an entire disk/device · Issue #140 · helloSystem/ISO — https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/140 https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/140
bitigchi 6y ago
As a Mac user, worth noting that this project tries to make it not just look like a Mac but feel like a Mac too. Kudos for this reason!
shrubble 6y ago
There is also NEXTSPACE, which is focused on a distribution of files that implement a full NeXTSTEP environment for Linux. Installs on top of a minimal install of Centos 7,8, Fedora 31. I installed it in a VM and it worked pretty well, but does need more apps installed by default. See https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace .
- spijdar 6y ago
  It's worth being clear and noting that, somewhat unlike Hello, which is largely an attempt at looking like MacOS, with some attention given to the UI and things like keyboard shortcuts to make it sort of feel like MacOS, NEXTSPACE comes much closer to mimicking the functionality of NeXTSTEP and, by extension, MacOS (X). I do wish GNUstep and some of the other projects around it had more life and applications written for them. It could be a lovely OS with some work. And I do mean OS -- if one built a distro fully around GNUstep, it'd provide all the interfaces, both programmatic and GUI-wise. And it could be lovely. Not sure there's enough motivation left to get that ball rolling, though...
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  When Steve Jobs created the first mac, he tried to replicate the look and feel of the Xerox Alto. He did not pay much attention to other aspects such as Smalltalk-80 and object oriented programming. NeXT is an attempt to incorporate those concepts that were initially left out from the mac, thus creating an experience that is more faithful to the original Xerox Alto. That's the origin of Objective-C. It may be possible to create something like macOS based off GNUstep. There is a project going on that direction... Etoile. http://etoileos.com/etoile/ http://etoileos.com/etoile/
  - masswerk 6y ago
    There's actually quite a difference between Classic Mac and Alto/Smalltalk. (Both sides would argue that the other one totally missed it. There's even some evidence hinting at the Lisa having experimental windows even before the PARC visit, and these screenshots look actually more like the final product than what came after the visit. [1]) Just install an Alto emulator and try it yourself. Also, the Mac System was famously programmed in Object Pascal (like the Lisa). [1] https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Busy_Being_Born.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...
mmphosis 6y ago
"Resemble" is a start like Elementary on Linux and other distros that mimic the "look" but never the feel. TH^Hhere is a lot of legacy PC keyboard stuff that is annoying. Here is what is missing: Global menu bar: A concept in user interface design where a system-wide widget on the screen displays the menu items (also known as “actions” in Qt) for all applications I've tried “actions” in Qt and is not at all the same feel. A positional "sane" mapping of keys. I swap left ctrl and left alt in Linux. Alt on a PC keyboard is positioned where the Command Key would be. I install AutoKey to map all of the Alt keys to Ctrl keys in the Terminal: this is so my left Alt+c (Ctrl+c) will Copy (Command C) by sending ctrl+shift+c, and my left Ctrl+c (Alt+c) will send ctrl+c (break) to the Terminal. As far as I can tell, textbox navigation keys, like Home and End "PC" behaviour, are hard-coded in X11. Command ( + Shift) + arrow keys navigation in a textbox does not work as I expect, and cannot be configurated, I would need to modify the X11 source code and build from scratch.
- bscphil 6y ago
  I'd just say "to each their own" normally, but you describe this as "legacy PC" stuff, so I feel compelled to respond. I vastly prefer non-Mac keyboard shortcuts, to the point where I will only use a Mac (even temporarily) if I can run Karabiner and pull in my configuration. I simply don't understand how anyone reliably and comfortably finds the command key blindly with their fingers. The whole point (as I see it) of putting the Ctrl key where it is is that you can instantly find it blindly because it's in the corner. I'd also mention that there's no way (AFAIK) to have a two-key shortcut delete the previous word on macOS out of the box, whereas on basically every Windows and Linux desktop it's just Ctrl-Backspace. Likewise with the global menu bar, I detest this way of handling menu widgets. I wouldn't use any DE (on Linux) that forced me into it. I don't want to have to move the cursor farther than necessary, and I don't like being locked into "one app at a time" as my global scope. So I personally am very glad that there are projects that care about aesthetics on the Linux / Unix desktop without just copying the particular desktop metaphors and approach to user interfaces that Apple seems to cherish. I don't think there's a point in trying to "convert" Apple users by copying their desktops. If there are Mac owners who want to switch to a free operating system, while keeping the exact same desktop, they should start their own project to copy macOS.
endperform 6y ago
This reminds me of the first iteration of OS X on my old CRT iMac.
pjmlp 6y ago
Resemble is the keyword, without any of the frameworks that make macOS what it is.
michaelpb 6y ago
Sincere question: Why FreeBSD? I'm not against the choice, and I can imagine some valid reasons to choose it, but in the helloSystem docs I read so far I only found some common criticisms of desktop Linux UI (bloated, unfriendly, disorganized etc). Whether true or not, I really don't see how the kernel choice impacts the graphical experience they are imitating. This seems more of a criticism of distros, poorly followed or non-existent HIG for DEs, or even just the general ad-hoc nature of FOSS projects. That's why I don't see how basing a new free software project on FreeBSD would solve any of that -- it seems completely orthogonal. I mean, either way it seems they are basing it on KDE, which they could have also built on top of a Linux kernel: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/developer/architecture.html https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/developer/architecture.ht... Also, I get a lot of their criticisms of existing DEs, but it seems they are tossing a lot of work out without a viable replacement with buy-in, e.g. "XDG specifications are considered overly complex but insufficient and should be avoided, but may be acceptable as legacy technology for compatibility reasons". There's plenty of valid criticism of XDG, but until there is any support behind helloSystem, it reminds me a bit of this classic xkcd: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ All in all I'm actually excited about the project, since regardless of the kernel, I'm sure the DE they are developing will get ports elsewhere (e.g. to mature desktop Linuxes and BSDs), and any effort that helps macOS users jump to FOSS-world is also super appreciated!
- masukomi 6y ago
  because macOS is BSD based not Linux Based seems a damn good reason to make one that's going to feel similar to macOS, especially to the type of geeks who would switch to a *nix clone. You'll have the same command line libraries built in instead of the GNU ones. Now, I'm not saying i _want_ the BSD tools instead of the GNU ones, but it makes a LOT of sense if you're trying to keep the same behavior.
  - michaelpb 6y ago
    See, preferring BSD userland would be a rationale I would at least understand, but I didn't find that motivation in the documentation -- at least what I read of it. Instead I just saw a lot of criticisms of user experience and development experience of unrelated graphical (userland) software that are common to all the free desktop OS's.
sally1620 6y ago
What makes a Mac a Mac is hardware & software working together. Also the integration with other Apple things like watch, phone, and earbuds.
anthk 6y ago
A tip: Switch the dock to a QT based one.
jez 6y ago
Linux/BSD desktop UI is not the thing holding me back from switching from macOS! There are two things: - All the keybindings are wrong. - The mouse sensitivity is terrible. Maybe this is a hot take but I actually think most Linux/BSD UIs are fine! Pop!_OS looks great, is easy to get working, doesn't involve me tweaking random config files, hardly every breaks from an update, works with my graphics card, etc. Instead: - Linux/BSD UIs use the Control and Shift modifiers most heavily, instead of Command and Option. I should be able to use one keybinding everywhere to copy, without having to switch to Ctrl-Shift-C to copy in a terminal, where Ctrl-C is an interrupt. macOS lets me hijack any menu item globally on the operating system to assign a custom keybinding. - It is more or less impossible to make the mouse sensitivity feel like macOS (it's either way too slow or way to fast, and it seems as though the settings don't exist to change recreate the macOS acceleration curves).
- yagya 6y ago
  Yeah, I like the idea of having a Meta/Command key for common GUI shortcuts, rather than reassigning Control key shortcuts like Windows does.
  - grahamjperrin 6y ago
    > … reassigning Control key shortcuts like Windows does. Do you think of Control-C for copy as a reassignment? It's a norm in various desktop environments. KDE Plasma 5 here, for example.
- bscphil 6y ago
  By "the keybindings are wrong", you mean that the keybindings aren't what you want / what you're used to. Plenty of people prefer the keybindings this way. > It is more or less impossible to make the mouse sensitivity feel like macOS (it's either way too slow or way to fast Replying because of this - are you using libinput instead of the synaptics driver? Libinput is really a very big downgrade, and hardly has any configurability. I would be very surprised if you were unable to tweak Synaptics to meet your needs. I find my touchpad far smoother and easier to work with than any Apple touchpad I've ever tried. For reference, here are the settings for pointer motion alone that are exposed with the Synaptics driver in KDE. https://i.imgur.com/W0dDs2j.png https://i.imgur.com/W0dDs2j.png
helpboy 6y ago
Wohoo one more mac copy for who knows who
linuxbuild 6y ago
Do not forget to add your hardware to the Hello database by https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe/blob/master/INSTALL.BSD.md#install-on-hellosystem https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe/blob/master/INSTALL.BSD....
blackrock 6y ago
Mac keyboard shortcuts are not well thought out. It’s illogical. The Command key is used for shortcuts for the current active application, as well as controlling the operating system functions itself. There is no keyboard shortcut to activate the system menu bar on top. Insane. You have to use a mouse to click on the menu. Or you might be able to configure some weird shortcut to do it. Instead, I think Microsoft won this one. Windows uses Control to activate the active window’s shortcuts. Control-S to save it. Control-O to open a file. Etc. Alt key is used to control the active window itself. Alt-Space is used to open the active window’s menu, to move it around, resize, and close. Alt-F4 is used to close the window. But I think Alt-Escape would’ve been a better choice. Then the Windows key is used to control operating system level functions. Win-R to activate the run command. Win key itself will pull up the operating system’s menu. I think Win-Space should be used as a global run command bar. If this project goes anywhere, then please follow the Windows model for keyboard shortcuts. Also, use Control-Space to activate the active application’s command bar, so you can type in some manual commands to the application. Like Vim Or AutoCad does.

319 points by gautamcgoel 6y ago

the-dude 6y ago

For a graphical system, screenshots are hard to find.

duckerude 6y ago
I found one: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/helloSystem/hello/master/screenshots/20201229-desktop.png https://raw.githubusercontent.com/helloSystem/hello/master/s...
rvz 6y ago
Took me a second to find at least one screenshot: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/user/getting-started.html https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/user/getting-started.html But you're actually right though. I think that the screenshots are best presented on the front-page.
- the-dude 6y ago
  I am a bit ashamed I missed that one. Thanks for the pointer.
  - bee_rider 6y ago
    It was the only screenshot I could find, it is a bit minimal, and it requires scrolling down the page (which seems like a lazy complaint, but c'mon, the graphics are the whole point of this project, put it front-and-center!) Your shame is rejected, they are the ones who messed up.
gautamcgoel 6y ago
Plenty of screenshots here: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/hello-system-freebsd-os/amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2021/02/hel...
- the-dude 6y ago
  Are you involved in the project? Isn't this a massive copyright infringement on Apple's design?
  - mistrial9 6y ago
    I am using ctl-c ctl-v ctl-x and ctl-z "undo" right now, in 2021. These keyboard shortcuts and their menu-driven actions were definitely claimed as protected interface by Apple long ago. Apple's claims to user-interface control are wearing thin after close to four decades, no?
    - blackrock 6y ago
      Apple claims they own the rounded corners. Pay up if you want to use it.
      - grahamjperrin 6y ago
        Genuinely? https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2021/02/12/freebsd_that_looks_like_macos/#c_4203943 https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2021/02/12/freebsd_... was thought to be a joke …
  - rangoon626 6y ago
    Have a look at Big Sur, then check out Deepin, then have a look again at Big Sur.
    - Macha 6y ago
      Or if you claim that Deepin is too obscure to have influenced OS X, Gnome 3.
      - machello13 6y ago
        I mean this in the nicest way, but are you seriously suggesting Apple is looking to the open-source Linux community for UI design ideas? Isn't it much more likely the trend is just industry-wide, and Apple is part of it as much as Gnome is? Apple's own UI has been moving in that direction for years anyway before Big Sur.
barrenko 6y ago
This always the case with open-source projects. It would help with getting new users.

macksd 6y ago

This is exciting - I hope it gets momentum. I used to use BSD on my laptop and although it was a bit less convenient than Linux in terms of hardware support, etc. I really loved the philosophy. Some of the desktop-oriented distributions died out and have been replaced by others, so it's not an ecosystem I feel comfortable really investing my time in. But my wife loves the look and feel of Mac OS, and has just grown frustrated with a few things lately that are obviously just restricting users to squeeze them to more expensive products or locking them in to Apple's ecosystem. She's rarely cared much about my FOSS hobby before but something like this would actually appeal to her, I think.

reachtarunhere 6y ago
If you are open to Linux you might find this interesting https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
- KeyBoardG 6y ago
  This. I wonder how much work it would take to get the Pantheon desktop running on FreeBSD if they wanted that as the base.
- neilalexander 6y ago
  If there was a way to have the Pantheon desktop experience of elementaryOS on BSD or Illumos without having to build it myself, I’d be there in a heartbeat.
  - grahamjperrin 6y ago
    Excluding a global menu, yes?
whynotminot 6y ago
Just curious, what do you feel is squeezing you to a more expensive product lately? I still use a 2012 Mac mini from time to time. It recently stopped getting the latest OS upgrades, but getting 8ish years out of a product before being gently pushed to upgrade doesn't strike me as all that unreasonable or money-grabbing.

krylon 6y ago

> System Requirements: VGA capable of 1024x768 screen resolution I do not mean to be snarky, but are there actual displays that have a lower resolution these days? I mean, even my phone - which is not high-end at all, at least by central European standards - has 1280x720. I do have an Asus EeePC netbook with a 1024x600 display, but that is kind of a special case (also, it is 12 years old).

xtracto 6y ago
> I do have an Asus EeePC netbook with a 1024x600 display, but that is kind of a special case Hehe, I have one of those which I bought in Germany also like 12 years ago. They were all the rage at that time and the darn thing is still kicking ass. It is good for the odd Windows stuff that I have to do, and also serves as the CPU of my arcade build.
xu_ituairo 6y ago
I read it as just stating the minimum hardware needed to successfully run this. I don’t imagine them making it artificially higher, just because, would serve a purpose.
- krylon 6y ago
  Good point.
- chungus_khan 6y ago
  A lot of these straight up just exist so the creator has a sign to tap (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRYYGcWV4AAF2E4.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRYYGcWV4AAF2E4.jpg) when people try to file bug reports for unsupported oddball configurations.
WesolyKubeczek 6y ago
A plenty of 800x450 screens out there for the ilk of Raspberry Pi.
heavyset_go 6y ago
If you're running this is a virtual machine like it appears that the OS developer is, chances are that you'll be using a smaller resolution than what your screen can handle.

protomyth 6y ago

Anyone know the license of the code? I would assume BSD, but that assumption hasn't been true of some other projects.

tyingq 6y ago
There's a license file in the ISO repo, which I assume would cover most or all of the project. 3-Clause BSD: https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/blob/experimental/LICENSE https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/blob/experimental/LICENSE

CGamesPlay 6y ago

Sounds cool, although it still seems very early. Will keyboard shortcuts be primarily using Control or Super? As strange as it sounds, Control-driven keyboard shortcuts are one of the main things I think about every time I consider switching (and this is almost entirely because of the conflict of Control-C in the terminal).

coliveira 6y ago
In the Mac, terminal apps use Control-C without any problems. Only native Mac apps use the Command (Apple) key, so I see no conflict between these two key combinations.
- spockz 6y ago
  Command-C is copy basically everywhere in macOS. Even in electron apps and qt apps. I haven’t come across an app in about 10 years which used Ctrl-c for copy.
  - sneak 6y ago
    https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/7332 https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/issues/7332
1996 6y ago
> Will keyboard shortcuts be primarily using Control or Super? On linux, Super as the shortcut for window operation is gaining ground, leaving Control and Alt for the other shortcuts. Control is idea for the text shortcuts (emacs: Ctrl-A for beginning, E for end etc), and Alt for the menus (ex: Alt-F for files) even if there are a lot of crossovers (ex: Ctrl-F for find) > this is almost entirely because of the conflict of Control-C in the terminal I would suggest you remap intr to ^X : stty intr ^X : the X and C keys are very close, so it becomes natural very quickly I've seen quite a few people doing it, it inspired me to do the same: it very quickly becomes natural, far more that Shift-Ctrl-C https://askubuntu.com/questions/1207183/how-to-map-keys-on-linux-like-my-mac-machine https://askubuntu.com/questions/1207183/how-to-map-keys-on-l...

Toutouxc 6y ago

This feels like one of the "we have X at home" memes. The UI is all over the place.

xtracto 6y ago
The problem with all these Linux/BSD attempts at mimicking the Mac is that due to the nature of the open source components, they are mostly able to mimic the "look" but never the feel. The one thing that makes OSX different even from Windows is the way it "feels" when you are using it. And the simple things you can achieve in a very simple and intuitive matter. I just stumbled upon an example some days ago, when I needed to add a screenshot image to a PDF. It was surprisingly easy in the Mac: Double click the PDF to open it in preview, double click the image to open it in preview and then drag the file icon of the image into the pages view of the PDF. And the image is inserted as a page in the PDF without any issues. To do that on Windows or Linux (I use Mint in my PC) I think I'll have to print the Image as a PDF and then use some other software to "stitch" the two files together. And like that there are a lot of other UX small things that make for a more pleasant experience in the Mac, particularly for end users.
- aduitsis 6y ago
  My favourite small detail on the Mac, is how the clipboard interacts with the filesystem. You can select some text, drag it into the Desktop and it will become a .Clipping. Now, if you drag and drop that clipping into a text field (e.g. textedit), it will be as if it was pasted.
  - anthk 6y ago
    KDE used to work like that too.
    - heavyset_go 6y ago
      It still does.
  - hamburglar 6y ago

rangoon626 6y ago

I really appreciate seeing someone creating their own interface instead of re-skinning the popular shells. If the devs out there working on this see this thread, great work!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

1_player 6y ago

Brought to you by the creator of AppImage. https://medium.com/@probonopd/hello-lets-make-a-freebsd-for-mere-mortals-41b8f93ba075 https://medium.com/@probonopd/hello-lets-make-a-freebsd-for-...

diggernet 6y ago
And irdb. http://www.irdb.tk/ http://www.irdb.tk/
- trenchgun 6y ago
  Yes. This project has a much higher probability for success than baseline.

mikeiz404 6y ago

Video walkthrough: https://youtu.be/PlPTVbhrKYM https://youtu.be/PlPTVbhrKYM

zerof1l 6y ago

It may be appealing enough for a user to try it, but I foresee disappointment. Mac OS is not only about the UI but also about all the software for it. How easy it is to install and use it out of the box. Drivers are never an issue. It is very unlikely that the average user will have to run commands in bash or edit some config files in a text editor. It would be cool if some Linux variant could resemble Mac in this way.

machiaweliczny 6y ago
Isn't system76 and PopOS like that?
- pwdisswordfish6 6y ago
  No, have you used it? The Gnome customizations that go into Pop_OS! are more noticeably influenced by Windows-isms than they resemble Mac-like design (unfortunately -- the Windows influence leads to poorer outcomes that only really make sense when you realize that it's because it matches something in Windows, and not because there's any good from-first-principles rationale for those things).
  - mst 6y ago
    I think they meant "like that" wrt drivers not being an issue and not having to drop out of the GUI.
  - christophilus 6y ago
    It’s my daily driver. I’ve used Windows and OSX heavily for the past 30 years. Pop is not really like either. It’s its own beast, and I rather like it.
- macksd 6y ago
  No. The Pop! OS UI is basically gnome with tiling. I wouldn't say it draws from either Windows or Mac OS, though I think Gnome takes cues from Mac OS. I wanted to like the tiling, but I always seemed to get lost after a few hours if I was task switching too much, so I just switched back to KDE, which is definitely more Windows-like. For me the draw to System76 is the hardware, knowing the right drivers are already integrated, etc. and their focus on CUDA / TensorFlow tooling. The first 2 are common reasons to like Apple and their philosophy... edit: Oh - like another commenter I misunderstood and thought you were discussing resembling the UI. But no you're talking about integrated hardware and software and I guess that's the point I ended up agreeing with :)

zeckalpha 6y ago

Any plans to partner with prior attempts like Darling/GNUStep/Window Maker/Etoile?

lproven 6y ago
AUIU, as someone who's very peripherally connected to both. (I'm an active-ish member of the GNUstep list & in my spare time I've been working on a remix of openSUSE with GNUstep on top; I exchange messages with ProBono about UI design, history, keyboard layouts etc.) The initial version of the HelloSystem was based on GNUstep on FuryBSD. However, apparently -- I did not see any of the comms -- he found the GNUstep people very hard to work with and fairly quickly ditched it and started to roll his own. I must say that I've found the GNUstep folks to be rather intransigent myself. I've found it hard to get answers to simple questions, and when I make small suggestions, they've been mostly been shouted down or ignored. ISTM that the GNUstep project see themselves as building a set of libraries, classes, and tools for building apps. As it happens, as a side-effect of that, they've built a desktop environment as well, but they are not interested in that and don't care about it. Desktops are not their business. They're perfectly happy if others want to use GNUstep to build desktops, though. For reasons that escape me, the GNUstep team are not bothered about ensuring that there are current packages in mainstream Linux distros. This seems to be seen as something for others to do. Etoile violated one of the core rules of FOSS, ISTM: "release early, release often." They never actually put out a release at all in some 15 years of work. You want code? Here's the source: download it and build it yourself. It's a tragic oversight.
- zeckalpha 6y ago
  I thought http://coreobject.org/ http://coreobject.org/ was refactored out of Etoile?

Gys 6y ago

If you want this, I recommend to also look at https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/ (to me that looks more moderm)

mmastrac 6y ago
Elementary looks like a great attempt at a clean desktop. Lots of attention to detail (although odd that they have a gif searching applications on the front page with such a mis-centered text insertion mark!). I really wish that Gnome would go all-in on the single menu bar approach of OSX. I know it's gone back and forth over the years and broken from time-to-time but it really is a much better way to do things versus the windows menu-per-window approach. IMO obviously, but I've used OSX for a decade and Windows/DOS for 20 years before that and top menus have always just been a better experience.
- themacguffinman 6y ago
  The menu bar is one of the most frustrating parts of macOS for me. It kills Fitts' law when navigating browser tabs, which is what I'm trying to do up there 90% of the time.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Of course, on macOS the tabs go below the titlebar ;)
  - oneeyedpigeon 6y ago
    I think the trade off - benefitting from Fitts law when you need to use a menu AND saving screen estate - is worth it. At least switching tabs is a trivial keyboard shortcut.
trenchgun 6y ago
That is based on Linux, not FreeBSD.
vermaden 6y ago
No icons on the desktop at elementary.

aminozuur 6y ago

That's a very ugly website for something that's "designed to resemble Mac"

1-6 6y ago
FreeBSD has to have SOME influence!

rbanffy 6y ago

If someone wants to mimic the Mac, I'd suggest they start by making it easy to port apps from macOS. Worst case scenario, you run binaries from macOS directly on your OS. Then it starts making sense to build your own.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
If the goal is looking and acting like a mac, implementing the entire set of application-facing OS interfaces is far more expensive than just theming and UX work. That said, this has been attempted and supposedly works for simple apps (mostly excluding GUI apps) - https://www.darlinghq.org/ https://www.darlinghq.org/
- rbanffy 6y ago
  Theming can't go far without the plumbing that underpin Mac applications. You can mimic the look perfectly and it'll still feel odd. You can't run xterm and expect Mac users to think it's how it's supposed to be. You won't get far unless you also emulate the behavior with mixed high-dpi and normal screens and making apps look the same across screen borders.
- anthk 6y ago
  GNUStep predates darling by several years. They could just modernize GNUStep with a custom style like Etoile but without having to put crap on top. I've seen GNUStep styles which looked pretty modern back in the day, they didn't look like NeXT.
heavyset_go 6y ago
This is a big undertaking. Microsoft was able to do this for UWP and iOS[1], but they're a billion dollar company with the man power to accomplish something like that. [1] https://github.com/microsoft/WinObjC https://github.com/microsoft/WinObjC

1-6 6y ago

The cursive animation of 'hello' has the o written wrong. You're supposed to do a clockwise stop at 12 o'clock when drawing the 'o' and do a counter-clockwise back to 12 to meet. Apple would never mess that up especially when Steve Jobs was critical about typography on the early Macs.

peterburkimsher 6y ago

I tried to install Hello, and set up a live USB. The GUI was nice enough to satisfy me. The problems started when I tried to install it. The installer assumes that I want to erase the entire drive. How can an alternative OS expect to be given first-class ownership of the internal drive? It's so... prideful. Many Linux users dual-boot, as do some macOS users on x86. After trying FreeBSD and NomadBSD, in the end I got GhostBSD working. The trackpad works, but sensitivity is way off. It was a fun experiment, and I like the attempts at making a prettier GUI, but this won't be my daily driver.

grahamjperrin 6y ago
> … How can an alternative OS expect to be given first-class ownership of the internal drive? It's so … … so 0.4. Allow installation of FreeBSD to a partition – not taking an entire disk/device · Issue #140 · helloSystem/ISO — https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/140 https://github.com/helloSystem/ISO/issues/140

bitigchi 6y ago

As a Mac user, worth noting that this project tries to make it not just look like a Mac but feel like a Mac too. Kudos for this reason!

shrubble 6y ago

There is also NEXTSPACE, which is focused on a distribution of files that implement a full NeXTSTEP environment for Linux. Installs on top of a minimal install of Centos 7,8, Fedora 31. I installed it in a VM and it worked pretty well, but does need more apps installed by default. See https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace https://github.com/trunkmaster/nextspace .

spijdar 6y ago
It's worth being clear and noting that, somewhat unlike Hello, which is largely an attempt at looking like MacOS, with some attention given to the UI and things like keyboard shortcuts to make it sort of feel like MacOS, NEXTSPACE comes much closer to mimicking the functionality of NeXTSTEP and, by extension, MacOS (X). I do wish GNUstep and some of the other projects around it had more life and applications written for them. It could be a lovely OS with some work. And I do mean OS -- if one built a distro fully around GNUstep, it'd provide all the interfaces, both programmatic and GUI-wise. And it could be lovely. Not sure there's enough motivation left to get that ball rolling, though...
29athrowaway 6y ago
When Steve Jobs created the first mac, he tried to replicate the look and feel of the Xerox Alto. He did not pay much attention to other aspects such as Smalltalk-80 and object oriented programming. NeXT is an attempt to incorporate those concepts that were initially left out from the mac, thus creating an experience that is more faithful to the original Xerox Alto. That's the origin of Objective-C. It may be possible to create something like macOS based off GNUstep. There is a project going on that direction... Etoile. http://etoileos.com/etoile/ http://etoileos.com/etoile/
- masswerk 6y ago
  There's actually quite a difference between Classic Mac and Alto/Smalltalk. (Both sides would argue that the other one totally missed it. There's even some evidence hinting at the Lisa having experimental windows even before the PARC visit, and these screenshots look actually more like the final product than what came after the visit. [1]) Just install an Alto emulator and try it yourself. Also, the Mac System was famously programmed in Object Pascal (like the Lisa). [1] https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Busy_Being_Born.txt https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&stor...

mmphosis 6y ago

"Resemble" is a start like Elementary on Linux and other distros that mimic the "look" but never the feel. TH^Hhere is a lot of legacy PC keyboard stuff that is annoying. Here is what is missing: Global menu bar: A concept in user interface design where a system-wide widget on the screen displays the menu items (also known as “actions” in Qt) for all applications I've tried “actions” in Qt and is not at all the same feel. A positional "sane" mapping of keys. I swap left ctrl and left alt in Linux. Alt on a PC keyboard is positioned where the Command Key would be. I install AutoKey to map all of the Alt keys to Ctrl keys in the Terminal: this is so my left Alt+c (Ctrl+c) will Copy (Command C) by sending ctrl+shift+c, and my left Ctrl+c (Alt+c) will send ctrl+c (break) to the Terminal. As far as I can tell, textbox navigation keys, like Home and End "PC" behaviour, are hard-coded in X11. Command ( + Shift) + arrow keys navigation in a textbox does not work as I expect, and cannot be configurated, I would need to modify the X11 source code and build from scratch.

bscphil 6y ago
I'd just say "to each their own" normally, but you describe this as "legacy PC" stuff, so I feel compelled to respond. I vastly prefer non-Mac keyboard shortcuts, to the point where I will only use a Mac (even temporarily) if I can run Karabiner and pull in my configuration. I simply don't understand how anyone reliably and comfortably finds the command key blindly with their fingers. The whole point (as I see it) of putting the Ctrl key where it is is that you can instantly find it blindly because it's in the corner. I'd also mention that there's no way (AFAIK) to have a two-key shortcut delete the previous word on macOS out of the box, whereas on basically every Windows and Linux desktop it's just Ctrl-Backspace. Likewise with the global menu bar, I detest this way of handling menu widgets. I wouldn't use any DE (on Linux) that forced me into it. I don't want to have to move the cursor farther than necessary, and I don't like being locked into "one app at a time" as my global scope. So I personally am very glad that there are projects that care about aesthetics on the Linux / Unix desktop without just copying the particular desktop metaphors and approach to user interfaces that Apple seems to cherish. I don't think there's a point in trying to "convert" Apple users by copying their desktops. If there are Mac owners who want to switch to a free operating system, while keeping the exact same desktop, they should start their own project to copy macOS.

endperform 6y ago

This reminds me of the first iteration of OS X on my old CRT iMac.

pjmlp 6y ago

Resemble is the keyword, without any of the frameworks that make macOS what it is.

michaelpb 6y ago

Sincere question: Why FreeBSD? I'm not against the choice, and I can imagine some valid reasons to choose it, but in the helloSystem docs I read so far I only found some common criticisms of desktop Linux UI (bloated, unfriendly, disorganized etc). Whether true or not, I really don't see how the kernel choice impacts the graphical experience they are imitating. This seems more of a criticism of distros, poorly followed or non-existent HIG for DEs, or even just the general ad-hoc nature of FOSS projects. That's why I don't see how basing a new free software project on FreeBSD would solve any of that -- it seems completely orthogonal. I mean, either way it seems they are basing it on KDE, which they could have also built on top of a Linux kernel: https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/developer/architecture.html https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/developer/architecture.ht... Also, I get a lot of their criticisms of existing DEs, but it seems they are tossing a lot of work out without a viable replacement with buy-in, e.g. "XDG specifications are considered overly complex but insufficient and should be avoided, but may be acceptable as legacy technology for compatibility reasons". There's plenty of valid criticism of XDG, but until there is any support behind helloSystem, it reminds me a bit of this classic xkcd: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/ All in all I'm actually excited about the project, since regardless of the kernel, I'm sure the DE they are developing will get ports elsewhere (e.g. to mature desktop Linuxes and BSDs), and any effort that helps macOS users jump to FOSS-world is also super appreciated!

masukomi 6y ago
because macOS is BSD based not Linux Based seems a damn good reason to make one that's going to feel similar to macOS, especially to the type of geeks who would switch to a *nix clone. You'll have the same command line libraries built in instead of the GNU ones. Now, I'm not saying i _want_ the BSD tools instead of the GNU ones, but it makes a LOT of sense if you're trying to keep the same behavior.
- michaelpb 6y ago
  See, preferring BSD userland would be a rationale I would at least understand, but I didn't find that motivation in the documentation -- at least what I read of it. Instead I just saw a lot of criticisms of user experience and development experience of unrelated graphical (userland) software that are common to all the free desktop OS's.

sally1620 6y ago

What makes a Mac a Mac is hardware & software working together. Also the integration with other Apple things like watch, phone, and earbuds.

anthk 6y ago

A tip: Switch the dock to a QT based one.

jez 6y ago

Linux/BSD desktop UI is not the thing holding me back from switching from macOS! There are two things: - All the keybindings are wrong. - The mouse sensitivity is terrible. Maybe this is a hot take but I actually think most Linux/BSD UIs are fine! Pop!_OS looks great, is easy to get working, doesn't involve me tweaking random config files, hardly every breaks from an update, works with my graphics card, etc. Instead: - Linux/BSD UIs use the Control and Shift modifiers most heavily, instead of Command and Option. I should be able to use one keybinding everywhere to copy, without having to switch to Ctrl-Shift-C to copy in a terminal, where Ctrl-C is an interrupt. macOS lets me hijack any menu item globally on the operating system to assign a custom keybinding. - It is more or less impossible to make the mouse sensitivity feel like macOS (it's either way too slow or way to fast, and it seems as though the settings don't exist to change recreate the macOS acceleration curves).

yagya 6y ago
Yeah, I like the idea of having a Meta/Command key for common GUI shortcuts, rather than reassigning Control key shortcuts like Windows does.
- grahamjperrin 6y ago
  > … reassigning Control key shortcuts like Windows does. Do you think of Control-C for copy as a reassignment? It's a norm in various desktop environments. KDE Plasma 5 here, for example.
bscphil 6y ago
By "the keybindings are wrong", you mean that the keybindings aren't what you want / what you're used to. Plenty of people prefer the keybindings this way. > It is more or less impossible to make the mouse sensitivity feel like macOS (it's either way too slow or way to fast Replying because of this - are you using libinput instead of the synaptics driver? Libinput is really a very big downgrade, and hardly has any configurability. I would be very surprised if you were unable to tweak Synaptics to meet your needs. I find my touchpad far smoother and easier to work with than any Apple touchpad I've ever tried. For reference, here are the settings for pointer motion alone that are exposed with the Synaptics driver in KDE. https://i.imgur.com/W0dDs2j.png https://i.imgur.com/W0dDs2j.png

helpboy 6y ago

Wohoo one more mac copy for who knows who

linuxbuild 6y ago

Do not forget to add your hardware to the Hello database by https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe/blob/master/INSTALL.BSD.md#install-on-hellosystem https://github.com/linuxhw/hw-probe/blob/master/INSTALL.BSD....

blackrock 6y ago

Mac keyboard shortcuts are not well thought out. It’s illogical. The Command key is used for shortcuts for the current active application, as well as controlling the operating system functions itself. There is no keyboard shortcut to activate the system menu bar on top. Insane. You have to use a mouse to click on the menu. Or you might be able to configure some weird shortcut to do it. Instead, I think Microsoft won this one. Windows uses Control to activate the active window’s shortcuts. Control-S to save it. Control-O to open a file. Etc. Alt key is used to control the active window itself. Alt-Space is used to open the active window’s menu, to move it around, resize, and close. Alt-F4 is used to close the window. But I think Alt-Escape would’ve been a better choice. Then the Windows key is used to control operating system level functions. Win-R to activate the run command. Win key itself will pull up the operating system’s menu. I think Win-Space should be used as a global run command bar. If this project goes anywhere, then please follow the Windows model for keyboard shortcuts. Also, use Control-Space to activate the active application’s command bar, so you can type in some manual commands to the application. Like Vim Or AutoCad does.