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Your comment is so obviously disingenuous. It makes absolutely no sense to open a Lightning Network channel to send one transaction and then immediately close i

by chill1 6y ago

Your comment is so obviously disingenuous. It makes absolutely no sense to open a Lightning Network channel to send one transaction and then immediately close it.

Nursie 6y ago
It was a joke. OTOH lightning is IMHO a joke as well, for many reasons. Funds need to be tied up, nodes generally need to be online, routing is a (mathematically) hard issue, and the channel open and close transactions (or 'add funds') would certainly become an issue on the main chain if lightning became popular.
UncleMeat 6y ago
Why? If I want to send money to Bob in Venezuela I need a connection to him. And I'm not interested in sending further transactions to him. And he is in Venezuela and cannot rely on institutions (this is the real scenario that advocates keep bringing up). How am I going to pull this off without an on-chain transaction?
- j3th9n 6y ago
  You both use your lightning app connected to a LN payment processor which already has the necessary channels open with other nodes and/or payment processors.
  - UncleMeat 6y ago
    Can't do it in Venezuela. The whole point of that scenario when raised as a reason why btc is awesome is that you don't need an attached institution and your transactions cannot be censored.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - j3th9n 6y ago
      An LN payment processor is not institution, it's just a LN node which has channels open to many other nodes and to which you as a user can connect to, so you don't need to open separate channels with everyone you are doing transactions with. And if your LN node becomes unreachable due to censoring: they are often available over Tor too.
      - Nursie 6y ago
        Such a node becomes a payment processor, and must have a lot of BTC tied up in its channels in order to facilitate these payments. It's basically a bank at that point. Or a worse Visa.
        j3th9n 6y ago
        It doesn’t need a lot of BTC tied up in channels. It’s enough to have one channel open with another well connected node. Transactions can jump over several nodes to reach their destinations. And everybody can become a bank/payment processor for their friends and family with an LN node, no need for big centralized institutions.
        Nursie 6y ago
        We were talking about the well connected nodes, they need funds tied up in many channels. That's what makes them well connected. And effectively institutions. If it takes off don't be surprised if such entities start charging fees.
        j3th9n 6y ago
        It's up to each node how many channels they open and how much bitcoin is used for those channels, but lots of channels doesn't make it an institution. An LN node has to play with the same rules as every other node, it cannot enforce rules like institutions. And if you don't like some LN node's transaction fees, you choose a different node for your transaction to go through. As a result the high-transaction-fee node will soon lower its fees. Btw, every LN node is already charging fees.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

by chill1 6y ago

Your comment is so obviously disingenuous. It makes absolutely no sense to open a Lightning Network channel to send one transaction and then immediately close it.

Nursie 6y ago

It was a joke. OTOH lightning is IMHO a joke as well, for many reasons. Funds need to be tied up, nodes generally need to be online, routing is a (mathematically) hard issue, and the channel open and close transactions (or 'add funds') would certainly become an issue on the main chain if lightning became popular.

UncleMeat 6y ago

Why? If I want to send money to Bob in Venezuela I need a connection to him. And I'm not interested in sending further transactions to him. And he is in Venezuela and cannot rely on institutions (this is the real scenario that advocates keep bringing up). How am I going to pull this off without an on-chain transaction?

j3th9n 6y ago
You both use your lightning app connected to a LN payment processor which already has the necessary channels open with other nodes and/or payment processors.
- UncleMeat 6y ago
  Can't do it in Venezuela. The whole point of that scenario when raised as a reason why btc is awesome is that you don't need an attached institution and your transactions cannot be censored.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - j3th9n 6y ago
    An LN payment processor is not institution, it's just a LN node which has channels open to many other nodes and to which you as a user can connect to, so you don't need to open separate channels with everyone you are doing transactions with. And if your LN node becomes unreachable due to censoring: they are often available over Tor too.
    - Nursie 6y ago
      Such a node becomes a payment processor, and must have a lot of BTC tied up in its channels in order to facilitate these payments. It's basically a bank at that point. Or a worse Visa.
      - j3th9n 6y ago
        It doesn’t need a lot of BTC tied up in channels. It’s enough to have one channel open with another well connected node. Transactions can jump over several nodes to reach their destinations. And everybody can become a bank/payment processor for their friends and family with an LN node, no need for big centralized institutions.
        Nursie 6y ago
        We were talking about the well connected nodes, they need funds tied up in many channels. That's what makes them well connected. And effectively institutions. If it takes off don't be surprised if such entities start charging fees.
        j3th9n 6y ago
        It's up to each node how many channels they open and how much bitcoin is used for those channels, but lots of channels doesn't make it an institution. An LN node has to play with the same rules as every other node, it cannot enforce rules like institutions. And if you don't like some LN node's transaction fees, you choose a different node for your transaction to go through. As a result the high-transaction-fee node will soon lower its fees. Btw, every LN node is already charging fees.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]