4 ms·

I'm not against bitcoin anymore than I am against unnecessary taxation but since bitcoin uses electricity at an insanely unnecessary quantity it should be taxed

I'm not against bitcoin anymore than I am against unnecessary taxation but since bitcoin uses electricity at an insanely unnecessary quantity it should be taxed to the hilt to make up for increased environmental and infrastructure costs that are borne onto the 99.999% that do not participate in the scam.

rawtxapp 6y ago
Most of it is renewable energy. edit: 39% of it, as in a lot of it and that number should go up as the world is phasing out dirty energy for cleaner energy sources.
- newswasboring 6y ago
  Its really not[1]. > However, the CCAF’s report specifies that the 76% refers to the share of hashers who use renewable energy at any point. It estimates that only 39% of hashing’s total energy consumption comes from renewables. > Behind hydroelectricity, coal (38%) and natural gas (36%) are the energy sources hashers favour most. [1]https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36672/renewable-energy-not-as-prominent-in-cryptocurrency-mining-as-previously-claimed#:~:text=Behind%20hydroelectricity%2C%20coal%20(38%25),valid%20proof%2Dof%2Dwork https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36672/renewable-energy-....
  - frongpik 6y ago
    Only? I guess that if 40% of the worldwide energy production came from clean sources, all news outlets would count that as a massive success.
    - newswasboring 6y ago
      Yes. As they should. Its a much bigger achievement. I don't think these things are related.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- pfortuny 6y ago
  Which could be used for... heating? Lighting? Cooking? Cars? Something useful?
  - rawtxapp 6y ago
    While you might disagree with that, Bitcoin is useful.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      I think that is the fundamental disagreement. Many people do not view bitcoin as doing anything useful. If it is useful, how does it compare to other solutions for the same problems.
    - rawtxapp 6y ago
      @s1artibartfast, then it comes down to, who decides what's considered useful? In many ways, the market does, right? If it was useless trash, it wouldn't have any value, but that's clearly not the case.
  - ecommerceguy 6y ago
    This is for Raw transaction App person. What is bitcoin useful for? Laundering money out of China I give you. Do cartels accept bitcoin yet? Genuinely curious, what it is useful for?
  - rawtxapp 6y ago
    @ecommerceguy, for protecting my wealth against dilution by endless money printing, stimulus and bailouts of broken companies/banks. I strongly believe that the current financial system is completely broken, so I'd like to opt out of it as much as possible.
    - j-pb 6y ago
      You're free to do so, buy a plot of land and grab a plow. Don't ruin the planet for everybody else so that you can sit on your un-diluting hoard of tulips like a dutch dragon.
- monopoledance 6y ago
  I think most of that is hydro-power or geothermal energy, as in some situation, these produce excess energy locally at times. This is not the same as "renewable" energy, it's locally bound opportunistic energy. Hydro- and geothermal power is limited and almost exhausted already. These power sources are not chosen because they are ecologically neutral, but because mining is portable and can opportunistically use temporary cheap sources, like hydro-electrical dams build before the intended consumers arrived. Nothing in Bitcoin inherently favors sustainable energy sources, over cheap supply. In the coming years, we will have to bite the bullet and chose very expensive endeavors over what the market suggests. Bitcoin doesn't fit this future. It's suggested "value" is nothing compared to humanity's survival.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  The issue is that energy is largely fungible, at least when limited in space and time. Occasionally renewables are over-produced and can't be transmitted elsewhere, but often every kWh of green energy wasted on bitcoin mining is a kWh of non-renewable energy that has to be created to meet other demands.
abecedarius 6y ago
Tax the externality of actually burning carbon. That's what we actually want to discourage, right?
Mc_Big_G 6y ago
How much does it cost to maintain the dollar? It's reserve status is propped up through trillions of dollars spent on the military industrial complex. How much energy does that waste? Massive taxation on Bitcoin, simply because it's energy usage is easily calculated, is questionable.

rawtxapp 6y ago

Most of it is renewable energy. edit: 39% of it, as in a lot of it and that number should go up as the world is phasing out dirty energy for cleaner energy sources.

newswasboring 6y ago
Its really not[1]. > However, the CCAF’s report specifies that the 76% refers to the share of hashers who use renewable energy at any point. It estimates that only 39% of hashing’s total energy consumption comes from renewables. > Behind hydroelectricity, coal (38%) and natural gas (36%) are the energy sources hashers favour most. [1]https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36672/renewable-energy-not-as-prominent-in-cryptocurrency-mining-as-previously-claimed#:~:text=Behind%20hydroelectricity%2C%20coal%20(38%25),valid%20proof%2Dof%2Dwork https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/36672/renewable-energy-....
- frongpik 6y ago
  Only? I guess that if 40% of the worldwide energy production came from clean sources, all news outlets would count that as a massive success.
  - newswasboring 6y ago
    Yes. As they should. Its a much bigger achievement. I don't think these things are related.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pfortuny 6y ago
Which could be used for... heating? Lighting? Cooking? Cars? Something useful?
- rawtxapp 6y ago
  While you might disagree with that, Bitcoin is useful.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    I think that is the fundamental disagreement. Many people do not view bitcoin as doing anything useful. If it is useful, how does it compare to other solutions for the same problems.
  - rawtxapp 6y ago
    @s1artibartfast, then it comes down to, who decides what's considered useful? In many ways, the market does, right? If it was useless trash, it wouldn't have any value, but that's clearly not the case.
- ecommerceguy 6y ago
  This is for Raw transaction App person. What is bitcoin useful for? Laundering money out of China I give you. Do cartels accept bitcoin yet? Genuinely curious, what it is useful for?
- rawtxapp 6y ago
  @ecommerceguy, for protecting my wealth against dilution by endless money printing, stimulus and bailouts of broken companies/banks. I strongly believe that the current financial system is completely broken, so I'd like to opt out of it as much as possible.
  - j-pb 6y ago
    You're free to do so, buy a plot of land and grab a plow. Don't ruin the planet for everybody else so that you can sit on your un-diluting hoard of tulips like a dutch dragon.
monopoledance 6y ago
I think most of that is hydro-power or geothermal energy, as in some situation, these produce excess energy locally at times. This is not the same as "renewable" energy, it's locally bound opportunistic energy. Hydro- and geothermal power is limited and almost exhausted already. These power sources are not chosen because they are ecologically neutral, but because mining is portable and can opportunistically use temporary cheap sources, like hydro-electrical dams build before the intended consumers arrived. Nothing in Bitcoin inherently favors sustainable energy sources, over cheap supply. In the coming years, we will have to bite the bullet and chose very expensive endeavors over what the market suggests. Bitcoin doesn't fit this future. It's suggested "value" is nothing compared to humanity's survival.
ashtonkem 6y ago
The issue is that energy is largely fungible, at least when limited in space and time. Occasionally renewables are over-produced and can't be transmitted elsewhere, but often every kWh of green energy wasted on bitcoin mining is a kWh of non-renewable energy that has to be created to meet other demands.

abecedarius 6y ago

Tax the externality of actually burning carbon. That's what we actually want to discourage, right?

Mc_Big_G 6y ago

How much does it cost to maintain the dollar? It's reserve status is propped up through trillions of dollars spent on the military industrial complex. How much energy does that waste? Massive taxation on Bitcoin, simply because it's energy usage is easily calculated, is questionable.