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That's moving the goalposts. The concern was for the native UI to get abandoned, it isn't. It may, or may not. The existence of the cross-platform version is ha

That's moving the goalposts. The concern was for the native UI to get abandoned, it isn't. It may, or may not. The existence of the cross-platform version is hardly an indicator. If anything, having only the macOS version limited their reach and future expansion.

dewey 6y ago
Not necessarily. The concern was "because it’s not web-based", which could mean that they don't like the web UI or the web based technology stack behind it. For me a native app has to both look and feel native. An app that looks like a native app (Like an Electron app can) isn't fully native for me because it still runs a web browser under the hood.
- rhencke 6y ago
  I think that's exactly what 'keep[ing] building the native macOS application as a first-class citizen' means.
- folkrav 6y ago
  I dislike Electron as much as the next guy, but that description of what's "native" is IMHO quite arbitrary. Anything using a cross-platform UI toolkit doesn't fit that description, e.g. Qt apps definitely don't look like they are native outside KDE, GTK outside GTK based DEs/WMs, Java apps don't look native anywhere, nor does Tk, etc. while an Electron app that used native-like UI elements could.
  - realityking 6y ago
    I think on macOS the definition of native is most often “Cocoa” and not the absence of web technologies.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    It's a spectrum. My hierarchy for Mac apps goes something like: Cocoa > Java > QT >>> Marzipan > Electron. On old OS's, Carbon would be between Cocoa and Java. And individual apps can vary a bit. But Electron apps generally feel less foreign than QT apps, which at least makes some attempt to use native Mac elements.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      ^ I'm past the edit window but noticed a bad typo I need to correct—Electron apps feel more foreign than QT apps, not less!
    - folkrav 6y ago
      Of course. However, between the close to sweet f*ck-all support we used to get on Linux for some software vs. a decent enough Electron app, I'll still take Electron. But I admittedly do have some RAM to spare.
      - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        Could have at least used Java :(
        folkrav 6y ago
        Eh. Outside Jetbrains' IDEs, I don't remember ever using a Java app that didn't feel like clunky as hell.
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        They're often better on macOS (assuming the developer put in some amount of effort) because Apple helped design the Mac SWING.

dewey 6y ago

Not necessarily. The concern was "because it’s not web-based", which could mean that they don't like the web UI or the web based technology stack behind it. For me a native app has to both look and feel native. An app that looks like a native app (Like an Electron app can) isn't fully native for me because it still runs a web browser under the hood.

rhencke 6y ago
I think that's exactly what 'keep[ing] building the native macOS application as a first-class citizen' means.
folkrav 6y ago
I dislike Electron as much as the next guy, but that description of what's "native" is IMHO quite arbitrary. Anything using a cross-platform UI toolkit doesn't fit that description, e.g. Qt apps definitely don't look like they are native outside KDE, GTK outside GTK based DEs/WMs, Java apps don't look native anywhere, nor does Tk, etc. while an Electron app that used native-like UI elements could.
- realityking 6y ago
  I think on macOS the definition of native is most often “Cocoa” and not the absence of web technologies.
- Wowfunhappy 6y ago
  It's a spectrum. My hierarchy for Mac apps goes something like: Cocoa > Java > QT >>> Marzipan > Electron. On old OS's, Carbon would be between Cocoa and Java. And individual apps can vary a bit. But Electron apps generally feel less foreign than QT apps, which at least makes some attempt to use native Mac elements.
  - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
    ^ I'm past the edit window but noticed a bad typo I need to correct—Electron apps feel more foreign than QT apps, not less!
  - folkrav 6y ago
    Of course. However, between the close to sweet f*ck-all support we used to get on Linux for some software vs. a decent enough Electron app, I'll still take Electron. But I admittedly do have some RAM to spare.
    - Wowfunhappy 6y ago
      Could have at least used Java :(
      - folkrav 6y ago
        Eh. Outside Jetbrains' IDEs, I don't remember ever using a Java app that didn't feel like clunky as hell.
        Wowfunhappy 6y ago
        They're often better on macOS (assuming the developer put in some amount of effort) because Apple helped design the Mac SWING.