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I haven't received my official enthusiast talking points memo, but the obvious solution was proposed years ago: off chain transaction that use smart contracts f

by tal8d 6y ago

I haven't received my official enthusiast talking points memo, but the obvious solution was proposed years ago: off chain transaction that use smart contracts for settlement on the public ledger. I vaguely remember "store of value" being used for what would more accurately be described as "trust anchor" or "root authority".

MichaelApproved 6y ago
As you've said, it's been years since that was proposed but it's still not helping because none of the off chain networks have gotten any traction. Admittedly, my experience with BTC is limited so please enlighten me if I have this wrong. That’s not a sarcastic request. I’m being genuine.
- bob33212 6y ago
  Off Chain transactions look so much like a credit card that as soon as you begin to build the off chain transaction system you see that Amex/Visa/MC could just allow customers to settle payment in BTC and get the same value.
  - tal8d 6y ago
    I'm trying to imagine how you think that'd work without them also running an exchange and eating slippage, or maintaining a massive hot wallet.
    - bob33212 6y ago
      You could make it a debit card and require people to deposit BTC. But in general the USD is a better settlement currency. That is why BTC isn't being used in transactions. BTC is a pump and dump play.
      - tal8d 6y ago
        lol, so nothing even close to an off chain network - but somehow the "same value". Well, except for the real time cryptographically secure stuff - but nobody wanted those values anyway. 10+ years is a pretty long con, that satoshi is one patient fraudster.
        bob33212 6y ago
        satoshi obviously isn't part of the con. He would have sold a long time ago if that was the case. It is the people who have latched on as "bitcoin evangelists" and are recruiting more people into the network to get the price to go up. Classic Ponzi scheme.
        tal8d 6y ago
        So not a "Classic Ponzi scheme", but the opposite - where Charles Ponzi is the victim of "people who have latched on". That is twice now that you've claimed something based on a bizarre redefinition. Even if there were some kind of campaign of revolving pyramid schemes over all these YEARS, bitcoin is net positive... while pyramid schemes operate at a deficit all the way up to the point where they go to zero.
        bob33212 6y ago
        I think you are right, this doesn't perfectly fit with existing definitions of other scams. This is more like the beanie baby situation combined with some libertarian political beliefs.
        tal8d 6y ago
        But the beanie baby craze only lasted 3 years. The CBOE didn't start trading beanie baby options. NIST didn't begin several beanie baby focused work groups and studies. The IRS didn't provide tax guidance on beanie babies... You guys really need to update that script, but I do congratulate you on dropping the tulip mania talking point - given the fact that there is no evidence it ever happened in the first place.
- tal8d 6y ago
  I don't follow the day to day, and it has been years since I contributed any code, but a quick peek at the lightning network stats makes me think that everything is fine. Good organic growth, with over 1000 BTC presently in flight. A lot of people seemed to be under the impression that the off chain networks would take center stage, and the blockchain would quietly power it from behind the scenes - but I'm pretty sure the direct opposite will occur. As far as why there hasn't been an explosion in network activity: I guess there isn't enough pressure. Every so often there is a spike that gets people up in arms, then it quiets down and they forget. Larger wallets will eventually start moving transactions off chain, but they've obviously got as much enthusiasm about it as they did in updating their backends to take advantage of space saving changes in the protocol. But once its done, its done. https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity

by tal8d 6y ago

MichaelApproved 6y ago

As you've said, it's been years since that was proposed but it's still not helping because none of the off chain networks have gotten any traction. Admittedly, my experience with BTC is limited so please enlighten me if I have this wrong. That’s not a sarcastic request. I’m being genuine.

bob33212 6y ago
Off Chain transactions look so much like a credit card that as soon as you begin to build the off chain transaction system you see that Amex/Visa/MC could just allow customers to settle payment in BTC and get the same value.
- tal8d 6y ago
  I'm trying to imagine how you think that'd work without them also running an exchange and eating slippage, or maintaining a massive hot wallet.
  - bob33212 6y ago
    You could make it a debit card and require people to deposit BTC. But in general the USD is a better settlement currency. That is why BTC isn't being used in transactions. BTC is a pump and dump play.
    - tal8d 6y ago
      lol, so nothing even close to an off chain network - but somehow the "same value". Well, except for the real time cryptographically secure stuff - but nobody wanted those values anyway. 10+ years is a pretty long con, that satoshi is one patient fraudster.
      - bob33212 6y ago
        satoshi obviously isn't part of the con. He would have sold a long time ago if that was the case. It is the people who have latched on as "bitcoin evangelists" and are recruiting more people into the network to get the price to go up. Classic Ponzi scheme.
        tal8d 6y ago
        So not a "Classic Ponzi scheme", but the opposite - where Charles Ponzi is the victim of "people who have latched on". That is twice now that you've claimed something based on a bizarre redefinition. Even if there were some kind of campaign of revolving pyramid schemes over all these YEARS, bitcoin is net positive... while pyramid schemes operate at a deficit all the way up to the point where they go to zero.
        bob33212 6y ago
        I think you are right, this doesn't perfectly fit with existing definitions of other scams. This is more like the beanie baby situation combined with some libertarian political beliefs.
        tal8d 6y ago
        But the beanie baby craze only lasted 3 years. The CBOE didn't start trading beanie baby options. NIST didn't begin several beanie baby focused work groups and studies. The IRS didn't provide tax guidance on beanie babies... You guys really need to update that script, but I do congratulate you on dropping the tulip mania talking point - given the fact that there is no evidence it ever happened in the first place.
tal8d 6y ago
I don't follow the day to day, and it has been years since I contributed any code, but a quick peek at the lightning network stats makes me think that everything is fine. Good organic growth, with over 1000 BTC presently in flight. A lot of people seemed to be under the impression that the off chain networks would take center stage, and the blockchain would quietly power it from behind the scenes - but I'm pretty sure the direct opposite will occur. As far as why there hasn't been an explosion in network activity: I guess there isn't enough pressure. Every so often there is a spike that gets people up in arms, then it quiets down and they forget. Larger wallets will eventually start moving transactions off chain, but they've obviously got as much enthusiasm about it as they did in updating their backends to take advantage of space saving changes in the protocol. But once its done, its done. https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity