6 ms·

Electricity is one of the most inefficient ways to heat a dwelling. I think natural gas is still considered to be several times more efficient but I haven’t loo

Electricity is one of the most inefficient ways to heat a dwelling. I think natural gas is still considered to be several times more efficient but I haven’t looked at it in a few years. Of course if you are also getting benefits from the crypto you mined that will offset the cost.

AlgorithmicTime 6y ago
Electricity is 100% efficient in a resistance heater, in that all the electricity used is turned to heat. However, it is considerably more expensive per unit heat than natural gas, even though you may only get 70-90% efficiency with your boiler or furnace. A heat pump can be even more efficient, though. An electric heat pump can be more than 100% efficient, in that each watt of electricity can be used to move more than 1 watt of heat into your home using the heat pump.
- SigmundA 6y ago
  If electricity is made combusting fossil fuels at a power plant at say 40-50% effciency thats the problem. If your using fossil fuels for heat its more efficient to burn them directly at point needed and capture the heat, rather than use the heat to convert to mechanical then electrical then back into heat. Air source heat pumps are basically solar assisted, they move heat from outside air into heated space using electricity which also contributes resistive heat in compressor friction. The outside air is heated by the sun.
burke 6y ago
This depends on what you’re measuring the efficiency with respect to though, right? Cost-wise, yeah, natural gas outperforms electricity everywhere I’m aware of. On a grid powered entirely by renewable energy though, there’s a meaningful sense in which the electrical method is “more efficient”
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Yes I meant on a cost basis. Renewables do throw a wrench into it of course.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
xxs 6y ago
>Electricity is one of the most inefficient ways to heat a dwelling. This is not true. Resistive heating is inefficient indeed but not all forms of conversion of electricity are inefficient. Geothermal pumps are very efficient for instance and use electricity only, they can be assisted directly by solar (PV) too.
- SigmundA 6y ago
  Bitcoin mining is resistive heating using semiconductors as the heating element.
  - xxs 6y ago
    Indeed it's waste heat (and not only in the semiconductors, the conductors/wires/traces and the metal in mosfets have minor contributions). The remark was about heating in general, hence the quote.
- zaarn 6y ago
  Resistive Heating is literally the most efficient form of heating where 100% (ie, all of) of the electric watts you put in are turned into thermal energy. Doesn't mean that the generator on the other end is efficient but that is a separate concern that can benefit from economies of scale (a big gas turbine would be more efficient than a swarm of small gas ovens producing the same energy).
  - orthoxerox 6y ago
    A gas oven is 100% efficient, while a gas turbine is at most 60%.
    - zaarn 6y ago
      A gas oven is not 100% efficient. If yours says it is, it's a lie sold to you by gas oven manufacturers. It's 100% efficient compared to some previous oven sold. Simple proof by example; if the exhaust air of your gas oven is warmer than ambient energy, it cannot be 100% efficient. (A few other laws of thermodynamics also play in here) A gas turbine has the advantage that it can use higher temperature gradients within, as well as high speeds and other mechanisms to take advantage of larger burnoffs of gas. A gas turbine is 60% efficient at base load and largely will be able to maintain 60% efficiency while being maintained at this load. A gas oven has a rough efficiency of around 70-90 % in AFUE. AFUE does not measure actual thermal efficiency, you can usually subtract between 10-35% depending on your boiler system, which ends you between... 40-60% just like a gas turbine in a worst case. The better cases of 60-80% are unlikely to be a steady state efficiency and more likely to be achieved if you have a boiler with great heat capacity that can hold onto the heat for longer. The efficiency here is ruined by ignition each time the furnace has to start running. Turns out you can't cheat thermodynamics, but you can certainly market like you did.

AlgorithmicTime 6y ago

Electricity is 100% efficient in a resistance heater, in that all the electricity used is turned to heat. However, it is considerably more expensive per unit heat than natural gas, even though you may only get 70-90% efficiency with your boiler or furnace. A heat pump can be even more efficient, though. An electric heat pump can be more than 100% efficient, in that each watt of electricity can be used to move more than 1 watt of heat into your home using the heat pump.

SigmundA 6y ago
If electricity is made combusting fossil fuels at a power plant at say 40-50% effciency thats the problem. If your using fossil fuels for heat its more efficient to burn them directly at point needed and capture the heat, rather than use the heat to convert to mechanical then electrical then back into heat. Air source heat pumps are basically solar assisted, they move heat from outside air into heated space using electricity which also contributes resistive heat in compressor friction. The outside air is heated by the sun.

burke 6y ago

This depends on what you’re measuring the efficiency with respect to though, right? Cost-wise, yeah, natural gas outperforms electricity everywhere I’m aware of. On a grid powered entirely by renewable energy though, there’s a meaningful sense in which the electrical method is “more efficient”

IgorPartola 6y ago
Yes I meant on a cost basis. Renewables do throw a wrench into it of course.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

xxs 6y ago

>Electricity is one of the most inefficient ways to heat a dwelling. This is not true. Resistive heating is inefficient indeed but not all forms of conversion of electricity are inefficient. Geothermal pumps are very efficient for instance and use electricity only, they can be assisted directly by solar (PV) too.

SigmundA 6y ago
Bitcoin mining is resistive heating using semiconductors as the heating element.
- xxs 6y ago
  Indeed it's waste heat (and not only in the semiconductors, the conductors/wires/traces and the metal in mosfets have minor contributions). The remark was about heating in general, hence the quote.
zaarn 6y ago
Resistive Heating is literally the most efficient form of heating where 100% (ie, all of) of the electric watts you put in are turned into thermal energy. Doesn't mean that the generator on the other end is efficient but that is a separate concern that can benefit from economies of scale (a big gas turbine would be more efficient than a swarm of small gas ovens producing the same energy).
- orthoxerox 6y ago
  A gas oven is 100% efficient, while a gas turbine is at most 60%.
  - zaarn 6y ago
    A gas oven is not 100% efficient. If yours says it is, it's a lie sold to you by gas oven manufacturers. It's 100% efficient compared to some previous oven sold. Simple proof by example; if the exhaust air of your gas oven is warmer than ambient energy, it cannot be 100% efficient. (A few other laws of thermodynamics also play in here) A gas turbine has the advantage that it can use higher temperature gradients within, as well as high speeds and other mechanisms to take advantage of larger burnoffs of gas. A gas turbine is 60% efficient at base load and largely will be able to maintain 60% efficiency while being maintained at this load. A gas oven has a rough efficiency of around 70-90 % in AFUE. AFUE does not measure actual thermal efficiency, you can usually subtract between 10-35% depending on your boiler system, which ends you between... 40-60% just like a gas turbine in a worst case. The better cases of 60-80% are unlikely to be a steady state efficiency and more likely to be achieved if you have a boiler with great heat capacity that can hold onto the heat for longer. The efficiency here is ruined by ignition each time the furnace has to start running. Turns out you can't cheat thermodynamics, but you can certainly market like you did.