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This guys is an American. The FSB (what the KGB turned into) can't do much to him without an elaborate process (either a diplomatic one, or inserting agents ont

by hugh3 15y ago

This guys is an American. The FSB (what the KGB turned into) can't do much to him without an elaborate process (either a diplomatic one, or inserting agents onto American soil.) For the actual circumstances he's talking about (international phone calls and transfers) there's always at least one other country involved, so their secret service is at least as likely as the US's to be monitoring it. The FBI, however, can have him hauled away with a minimal amount of effort. Uhh, the FBI has always been able to haul you away with a minimal amount of effort. All they have to do is suspect you of a crime. That's got nothing to do with the Patriot act or with the War on Terror... that's what the FBI is designed to do.

pyre 15y ago
The point is that if you put anyone under the microscope, they are probably violating at least one or two Federal laws. There have been numerous articles written about this. The Patriot Act is all about making 'putting someone under the microscope' as frictionless as possible, which isn't necessarily a good thing.
CWuestefeld 15y ago
there's always at least one other country involved You seem to be arguing that everyone's personal security should be set at the level of the lowest possible endpoint - a race to the bottom for security. We should be arguing for improving the security on the other side, not lowering ourselves to that level. the FBI has always been able to haul you away with a minimal amount of effort. All they have to do is suspect you of a crime. That's got nothing to do with the Patriot act or with the War on Terror False, in two important ways. First, it used to be that suspicion was insufficient: the required standard was probable cause. Second, the required standard today, thanks to PATRIOT, is far lower. There's no requirement that there be any suspicion of a crime, or indeed that there be any crime at all. If they don't like you, you're done for.
PostOnce 15y ago
there's always at least one other country involved, so their secret service is at least as likely as the US's to be monitoring it. Not really. Just because two entities have the same capability does not mean they are equally likely to exercise that capability. I have two hands. Therefore, I am at least as likely as Michaelangelo to paint a masterpiece. Don't forget, too, that our spying agencies have RIDICULOUS budgets. The NSA has tens of billions of dollars per year to spend on spying on people.

by hugh3 15y ago

pyre 15y ago

The point is that if you put anyone under the microscope, they are probably violating at least one or two Federal laws. There have been numerous articles written about this. The Patriot Act is all about making 'putting someone under the microscope' as frictionless as possible, which isn't necessarily a good thing.

CWuestefeld 15y ago

there's always at least one other country involved You seem to be arguing that everyone's personal security should be set at the level of the lowest possible endpoint - a race to the bottom for security. We should be arguing for improving the security on the other side, not lowering ourselves to that level. the FBI has always been able to haul you away with a minimal amount of effort. All they have to do is suspect you of a crime. That's got nothing to do with the Patriot act or with the War on Terror False, in two important ways. First, it used to be that suspicion was insufficient: the required standard was probable cause. Second, the required standard today, thanks to PATRIOT, is far lower. There's no requirement that there be any suspicion of a crime, or indeed that there be any crime at all. If they don't like you, you're done for.

PostOnce 15y ago

there's always at least one other country involved, so their secret service is at least as likely as the US's to be monitoring it. Not really. Just because two entities have the same capability does not mean they are equally likely to exercise that capability. I have two hands. Therefore, I am at least as likely as Michaelangelo to paint a masterpiece. Don't forget, too, that our spying agencies have RIDICULOUS budgets. The NSA has tens of billions of dollars per year to spend on spying on people.