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That so many smart and talented people choose to work on AdTech or systems that support AdTech is such a shame. That being said, I love these little anecdotes,

That so many smart and talented people choose to work on AdTech or systems that support AdTech is such a shame. That being said, I love these little anecdotes, they are super fun to read.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
There are so many aspects of adtech that are ethically neutral. Just as advertising itself - there are even ads created by great creators that are works of modern art. It's only when it's abused adtech becomes evil.
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  Wow, I bet I'll miss out on so much important culture by not getting visual pollution all over the place unless its regulated out of existence. No thanks, I'll continue to block it everywhere that I can, and even going further and inspecting elements to get rid of obnoxious paywalls as well! Wow, am I a hypocrite? Maybe develop real, sustainable revenue models that aren't dependent on clickbait and being a lobbyist for corporations in the form of selling eyeballs to the highest bidder. Just yuck. I'll be inclined to buy into $WHATEVER if you just let me use it for a bit, if I find it of my own means. I promise you I'm not going to buy a Swatch because of your fucking banner ad. Seriously, I promise. If I just bought a book I promise you I'm not going to buy it again if I see it appear in my side banner. 100%. Or maybe I'll just grow less dependent on external services every time I have to consider another subscription... wow! We'll see!
- croes 6y ago
  Have you checked the art vs bullshit ratio?
  - arthurcolle 6y ago
    That probably costs extra
- beefield 6y ago
  It may be "many" but it does not mean that the defining nature of advertising is ethically neutral. I think I just quote Banksy/Tejaratchi: "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs." Edit: Credits also to Tejaratchi
  - arthurcolle 6y ago
    This is such a great quote. I've checked out a couple books on Banksy but haven't ever run into it before. Thanks so much for sharing!
  - Teever 6y ago
    One time I saw a fascinating article about how scientists were working to grow skin complete with natural looking hair from stem cells for burn victims and such. I thought the article was really neat and I was in a hurry so I emailed a the link to myself. The next time I logged into my gmail to read it I happened to be at a machine without adblock and I saw that google was serving me ads for garbage treatments for male pattern baldness. Fuck you Google and your shitty advertising. There's nothing wrong with going bald and I don't need you to try and make me feel insecure about my hairline when I'm trying to read about scientists helping burn victims.
    - 6y ago
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  > so many Please name 5
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    OK. Let's separate the ad industry from ad technology for now. So as for the latter, have a look at the Revive ad server [0]. It allows you to deliver ads with intricate rules as to when they should be served, on which websites and so on. It allows you to be less dependent on Google/FB duopoly. You can host the ads either on your own websites or contact the owners of other popular websites and arrange an ad deal that doesn't involve user tracking. Yes, this is the opposite of what modern ad networks are doing. In any case, advertising without user tracking is, in my opinion, one of the most ethically neutral forms of making your product/service known, in contrast to morally dubious methods such as advertising with user tracking, product placement, advertorials, advertising disguised as articles/videos etc. [0] https://www.revive-adserver.com/features/ https://www.revive-adserver.com/features/
- llarsson 6y ago
  There is a difference between the medium (ads) and the targeting and distribution technology (adtech). A great ad evokes some kind of feeling, can live with you for a long time, and even bring back memories that you cherish. Yes, I agree with you, it can be a form of art in that regard. Adtech, however, is an intentionally invasive technology that exploits any means necessary and technologically feasible to more narrowly target potential consumers. You can have ads without adtech. But you can't have (commercially successful) adtech without invasion of privacy.
  - dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
    > But you can't have (commercially successful) adtech without invasion of privacy. I think we (as a society, not just tech people) specifically need to take care of this point. Removing tracking will make it less effective, so what. We've had advertising without tracking since 19th century.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wwww4all 6y ago
There are more positives in Adtech than negatives. Adtech allows people and businesses to find products and services they want and need. Gives consumers choice in discovery and businesses reach and targeting customers in need. At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people. That and the many business opportunities are why so many talented people work in Adtech.
- saiojd 6y ago
  Keep telling yourself that if it helps. ;) While at some level ads probably do help consumers (indirectly), my impression so far is that at a fundamental level they are about companies competing for money, in a way which wastes everybody's time. Since your point of view is so vastly different, I'm curious in which ways you feel like they give consumers choice?
- bigphishy 6y ago
  "At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people." Haha. Adtech is not there to "help people". Back in the day, prior to television and radio, ads were there to provide information about a product, but those days are long since past. Ads now-a-days appeal to emotional and irrational wants/desires, this is common knowledge. Ads attempt to generate needless sales by marketing to irrational and emotional desires. Adtech on the other hand, is there to drive irrational and unneeded consumerism and consumption just as well, it just happens to have some additional evil sprinkled on top. For example, adtech violates human privacy, adtech marginalizes the open web, and turns it into a creepy surveillance nightmare. To say that "At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people." is delusional and unintentionally hilarious. I am going to swing in the dark and say the GP must be an employee of facebook
- hesk 6y ago
  If only Google had a search engine to help people and businesses find products and services they want and need.
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  I share many concerns about tracking people, but let's acknowledge that adtech democratizes access to services that most people (worldwide) would not be able to afford. "Free" is the only price that works for the 36% of the world's population that is in poverty.

That so many smart and talented people choose to work on AdTech or systems that support AdTech is such a shame. That being said, I love these little anecdotes, they are super fun to read.

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

There are so many aspects of adtech that are ethically neutral. Just as advertising itself - there are even ads created by great creators that are works of modern art. It's only when it's abused adtech becomes evil.

arthurcolle 6y ago
Wow, I bet I'll miss out on so much important culture by not getting visual pollution all over the place unless its regulated out of existence. No thanks, I'll continue to block it everywhere that I can, and even going further and inspecting elements to get rid of obnoxious paywalls as well! Wow, am I a hypocrite? Maybe develop real, sustainable revenue models that aren't dependent on clickbait and being a lobbyist for corporations in the form of selling eyeballs to the highest bidder. Just yuck. I'll be inclined to buy into $WHATEVER if you just let me use it for a bit, if I find it of my own means. I promise you I'm not going to buy a Swatch because of your fucking banner ad. Seriously, I promise. If I just bought a book I promise you I'm not going to buy it again if I see it appear in my side banner. 100%. Or maybe I'll just grow less dependent on external services every time I have to consider another subscription... wow! We'll see!
croes 6y ago
Have you checked the art vs bullshit ratio?
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  That probably costs extra
beefield 6y ago
It may be "many" but it does not mean that the defining nature of advertising is ethically neutral. I think I just quote Banksy/Tejaratchi: "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even start asking for theirs." Edit: Credits also to Tejaratchi
- arthurcolle 6y ago
  This is such a great quote. I've checked out a couple books on Banksy but haven't ever run into it before. Thanks so much for sharing!
- Teever 6y ago
  One time I saw a fascinating article about how scientists were working to grow skin complete with natural looking hair from stem cells for burn victims and such. I thought the article was really neat and I was in a hurry so I emailed a the link to myself. The next time I logged into my gmail to read it I happened to be at a machine without adblock and I saw that google was serving me ads for garbage treatments for male pattern baldness. Fuck you Google and your shitty advertising. There's nothing wrong with going bald and I don't need you to try and make me feel insecure about my hairline when I'm trying to read about scientists helping burn victims.
  - 6y ago
arthurcolle 6y ago
> so many Please name 5
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  OK. Let's separate the ad industry from ad technology for now. So as for the latter, have a look at the Revive ad server [0]. It allows you to deliver ads with intricate rules as to when they should be served, on which websites and so on. It allows you to be less dependent on Google/FB duopoly. You can host the ads either on your own websites or contact the owners of other popular websites and arrange an ad deal that doesn't involve user tracking. Yes, this is the opposite of what modern ad networks are doing. In any case, advertising without user tracking is, in my opinion, one of the most ethically neutral forms of making your product/service known, in contrast to morally dubious methods such as advertising with user tracking, product placement, advertorials, advertising disguised as articles/videos etc. [0] https://www.revive-adserver.com/features/ https://www.revive-adserver.com/features/
llarsson 6y ago
There is a difference between the medium (ads) and the targeting and distribution technology (adtech). A great ad evokes some kind of feeling, can live with you for a long time, and even bring back memories that you cherish. Yes, I agree with you, it can be a form of art in that regard. Adtech, however, is an intentionally invasive technology that exploits any means necessary and technologically feasible to more narrowly target potential consumers. You can have ads without adtech. But you can't have (commercially successful) adtech without invasion of privacy.
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  > But you can't have (commercially successful) adtech without invasion of privacy. I think we (as a society, not just tech people) specifically need to take care of this point. Removing tracking will make it less effective, so what. We've had advertising without tracking since 19th century.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

wwww4all 6y ago

There are more positives in Adtech than negatives. Adtech allows people and businesses to find products and services they want and need. Gives consumers choice in discovery and businesses reach and targeting customers in need. At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people. That and the many business opportunities are why so many talented people work in Adtech.

saiojd 6y ago
Keep telling yourself that if it helps. ;) While at some level ads probably do help consumers (indirectly), my impression so far is that at a fundamental level they are about companies competing for money, in a way which wastes everybody's time. Since your point of view is so vastly different, I'm curious in which ways you feel like they give consumers choice?
bigphishy 6y ago
"At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people." Haha. Adtech is not there to "help people". Back in the day, prior to television and radio, ads were there to provide information about a product, but those days are long since past. Ads now-a-days appeal to emotional and irrational wants/desires, this is common knowledge. Ads attempt to generate needless sales by marketing to irrational and emotional desires. Adtech on the other hand, is there to drive irrational and unneeded consumerism and consumption just as well, it just happens to have some additional evil sprinkled on top. For example, adtech violates human privacy, adtech marginalizes the open web, and turns it into a creepy surveillance nightmare. To say that "At fundamental level, Adtech is there to help people." is delusional and unintentionally hilarious. I am going to swing in the dark and say the GP must be an employee of facebook
hesk 6y ago
If only Google had a search engine to help people and businesses find products and services they want and need.
edmundsauto 6y ago
I share many concerns about tracking people, but let's acknowledge that adtech democratizes access to services that most people (worldwide) would not be able to afford. "Free" is the only price that works for the 36% of the world's population that is in poverty.