8 ms·

We want software patents abolished

165 points by ajennings 15y ago

AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)

ajennings 15y ago
AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)
JoachimSchipper 15y ago
A comment that is [dead], but worth seeing: ajennings 1 hour ago | link [dead] AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)
- swombat 15y ago
  Huh... why is that comment dead?
  - jpadvo 15y ago
    Strange. Does anyone know if upvotes can resurrect a dead comment? In any case, I just gave it one in hopes it'll help..
    - TheAmazingIdiot 15y ago
      I have showdead turned on, due to 'interesting content' that is occasionally found there. I do think the worst is when a user deletes a comment after it has had 2 or 3 responses. Doing so removes much of the value of the 'children' comments. Perhaps, it's something pg could look into. Deletion of a lone comment (no children) isnt that big of a deal.
andrewcross 15y ago
In the case of software, a patent doesn't promote innovation, it hampers it. Allowing a company to sit on it's laurels for 20 years because they patented something as simple as swiping left to right to unlock a screen is absurd. This isn't to say that companies shouldn't be able to protect their products. Trademarks are very valuable and help prevent cheap knockoffs, but patents aren't being used to protect their products against knock-offs. They are being used to force other companies to find complicated workarounds for a simple problem.
- kanetrain 15y ago
  I agree with Andrew on this.
- mikecarlucci 15y ago
  And software has copyright protection as well. Putting aside the length of copyright protection, which is a separate problem, copyright doesn't protect functional elements.
andrewvc 15y ago
I believe snopes had the final word on this http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp This change, sadly, needs to come from industry, with big $ behind it.
- ajennings 15y ago
  I agree with most of that Snopes article. Internet petitions (especially email ones) do not have a very good track record. Then again, there have been cases where online, grassroots sentiment has snowballed into something that affected the real world, no? So the goal of AskForIt is to re-invent the online petition, Web 2.0 style, using all the modern social networking tools available, to help get some things to the tipping point that wouldn't get there otherwise. Surely there is some level of public support for abolishing software patents that would get the attention of the politicians, so we're hoping people will decide that it doesn't really hurt anything to join on and see how high we can get.
  - sixtofour 15y ago
    I seriously doubt that the public is even aware of the issue, or that they are able to understand the issue. Without that public pressure the only thing influencing Congress is lobbying and campaign donations. Big IP is very strong and assertive.
    - jwecker 15y ago
      Considering that I've worked with dozens and have known hundreds of serious computer professionals and have yet to meet a single one that supports software patents (including many who have them!), and I suspect that I may never meet such a person- I have to agree that there is some public support for this issue. Admittedly, we're a small percentage of the general population, but we are certainly influencers. I believe that askforit.com is specifically trying to overcome the issues that snopes talks about (and even if they don't, it's silly to think that that will remain the "last word" on the issue- it's relevant for late-90's early 2000's technology). Secondly, if you were to pull 'Big copyright/DMCA' and 'Non-computer-related IP like pharma' out of 'Big IP' you'd be left with a peppering of small disreputable companies (that are really lawyers and not technologists) that actually attempt to make a little bit of money off of software patents, and big industry that use them as a form of mutually-assured-destruction - who are more or less ambivalent toward them but have to have them as insurance. So in short, I'm not totally disagreeing, but instead of the implied "tiny group of HNewsers vs. Every big corporation" I think it's more along the lines of "pretty much everyone that does anything serious with computers vs. general apathy and a small smear of vested interests." What would prove me wrong: Is there even a single currently reputable/established company big enough to lobby congress that has software patent royalties as a significant revenue source? If so, are there several of these? I'll be impressed if someone can think of one... but is there really some hidden computer software industry perhaps deep in the bowels if the fortune-500s that I somehow just never hear about that actually use software patents in the intended way [i.e., not for insurance against competing patent claims]? EDIT: I'm responding to you and andrewvc at the same time- sorry if it countered arguments that you actually didn't make.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
madflo 15y ago
I guess that going out of the patent business in the US will be a battle as big as the one that we are currently fighting in Europe in order to keep software patents out of the EU.
- kanetrain 15y ago
  I was not even aware this was an ongoing battle in Europe. Going to have to go do some reading. It's a real problem here in the US. As I understand, patents are supposed to encourage innovation... but software patents in the US have gotten so out of hand that I think they actually sniffle innovation and productivity.
d3x 15y ago
Its very easy to get upset at Lodsys for being scummy patent trolls but what about companies like Facebook see: http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3365 http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3365 IMHO they are just as bad because if they filled for these patents then eventually they will decide to enforce them.
shareme 15y ago
a better way: If we convince US congress that they are losing tax dollars for each software patent awarded the change in law may happen quicker.
- Benjo 15y ago
  Congress doesn't really care about tax dollars so much as individual congressmen care about campaign contributions. So you'd have to convince congressmen that they'll get more contributions by changing the patent system than by keeping it the same.
  - superppl 15y ago
    Tell them they are losing key votes and getting a huge smear campaign coming their way.

165 points by ajennings 15y ago

AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)

ajennings 15y ago

AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)

JoachimSchipper 15y ago

A comment that is [dead], but worth seeing: ajennings 1 hour ago | link [dead] AskForIt is my startup, by the way. :)

swombat 15y ago
Huh... why is that comment dead?
- jpadvo 15y ago
  Strange. Does anyone know if upvotes can resurrect a dead comment? In any case, I just gave it one in hopes it'll help..
  - TheAmazingIdiot 15y ago
    I have showdead turned on, due to 'interesting content' that is occasionally found there. I do think the worst is when a user deletes a comment after it has had 2 or 3 responses. Doing so removes much of the value of the 'children' comments. Perhaps, it's something pg could look into. Deletion of a lone comment (no children) isnt that big of a deal.

andrewcross 15y ago

In the case of software, a patent doesn't promote innovation, it hampers it. Allowing a company to sit on it's laurels for 20 years because they patented something as simple as swiping left to right to unlock a screen is absurd. This isn't to say that companies shouldn't be able to protect their products. Trademarks are very valuable and help prevent cheap knockoffs, but patents aren't being used to protect their products against knock-offs. They are being used to force other companies to find complicated workarounds for a simple problem.

kanetrain 15y ago
I agree with Andrew on this.
mikecarlucci 15y ago
And software has copyright protection as well. Putting aside the length of copyright protection, which is a separate problem, copyright doesn't protect functional elements.

andrewvc 15y ago

I believe snopes had the final word on this http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/petition/internet.asp This change, sadly, needs to come from industry, with big $ behind it.

ajennings 15y ago
I agree with most of that Snopes article. Internet petitions (especially email ones) do not have a very good track record. Then again, there have been cases where online, grassroots sentiment has snowballed into something that affected the real world, no? So the goal of AskForIt is to re-invent the online petition, Web 2.0 style, using all the modern social networking tools available, to help get some things to the tipping point that wouldn't get there otherwise. Surely there is some level of public support for abolishing software patents that would get the attention of the politicians, so we're hoping people will decide that it doesn't really hurt anything to join on and see how high we can get.
- sixtofour 15y ago
  I seriously doubt that the public is even aware of the issue, or that they are able to understand the issue. Without that public pressure the only thing influencing Congress is lobbying and campaign donations. Big IP is very strong and assertive.
  - jwecker 15y ago
    Considering that I've worked with dozens and have known hundreds of serious computer professionals and have yet to meet a single one that supports software patents (including many who have them!), and I suspect that I may never meet such a person- I have to agree that there is some public support for this issue. Admittedly, we're a small percentage of the general population, but we are certainly influencers. I believe that askforit.com is specifically trying to overcome the issues that snopes talks about (and even if they don't, it's silly to think that that will remain the "last word" on the issue- it's relevant for late-90's early 2000's technology). Secondly, if you were to pull 'Big copyright/DMCA' and 'Non-computer-related IP like pharma' out of 'Big IP' you'd be left with a peppering of small disreputable companies (that are really lawyers and not technologists) that actually attempt to make a little bit of money off of software patents, and big industry that use them as a form of mutually-assured-destruction - who are more or less ambivalent toward them but have to have them as insurance. So in short, I'm not totally disagreeing, but instead of the implied "tiny group of HNewsers vs. Every big corporation" I think it's more along the lines of "pretty much everyone that does anything serious with computers vs. general apathy and a small smear of vested interests." What would prove me wrong: Is there even a single currently reputable/established company big enough to lobby congress that has software patent royalties as a significant revenue source? If so, are there several of these? I'll be impressed if someone can think of one... but is there really some hidden computer software industry perhaps deep in the bowels if the fortune-500s that I somehow just never hear about that actually use software patents in the intended way [i.e., not for insurance against competing patent claims]? EDIT: I'm responding to you and andrewvc at the same time- sorry if it countered arguments that you actually didn't make.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

madflo 15y ago

I guess that going out of the patent business in the US will be a battle as big as the one that we are currently fighting in Europe in order to keep software patents out of the EU.

kanetrain 15y ago
I was not even aware this was an ongoing battle in Europe. Going to have to go do some reading. It's a real problem here in the US. As I understand, patents are supposed to encourage innovation... but software patents in the US have gotten so out of hand that I think they actually sniffle innovation and productivity.

d3x 15y ago

Its very easy to get upset at Lodsys for being scummy patent trolls but what about companies like Facebook see: http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3365 http://www.seobythesea.com/?p=3365 IMHO they are just as bad because if they filled for these patents then eventually they will decide to enforce them.

shareme 15y ago

a better way: If we convince US congress that they are losing tax dollars for each software patent awarded the change in law may happen quicker.

Benjo 15y ago
Congress doesn't really care about tax dollars so much as individual congressmen care about campaign contributions. So you'd have to convince congressmen that they'll get more contributions by changing the patent system than by keeping it the same.
- superppl 15y ago
  Tell them they are losing key votes and getting a huge smear campaign coming their way.