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The only software that actually dies is closed source. And with it, all the money you spent on it. FOSS will outlive us all.

dleslie 6y ago
There's plenty of dead FOSS. Anything that relies on a library or build toolchain that's hard to find or configure comes to mind. Go spend some time trying to get RHIDE working, for instance. You're going to have to bring it back to life to do so. And yet, closed source seems to run just fine in emulation.
- fartcannon 6y ago
  Luckily, I can bring it back to life. Good luck emulating! That emulator's probably based on FOSS. :)
  - dleslie 6y ago
    It generally takes less effort to emulate ancient software than to bring ancient FOSS back to life. Sure, the emulator is FOSS, but that's fitting in the 80/20 rule just fine. There's plenty of broken, abandoned and dead FOSS emulators, too.
    - fartcannon 6y ago
      But if you wanted to, you could bring them back to life. That's the value. With the emulator, first you need to write that emulator, and then you only get precisely that version of the software. After that, you're toast.
      - dleslie 6y ago
        Sure, but I'd have a tough time finding proprietary software that I'd want to use that isn't adequately emulated. As for updating, well, I'm not going to be updating most FOSS, either. Right now I can double-click an icon on my desktop that launches SimCity for Windows 3.1 inside of dosbox, and it works great. It didn't take much effort to get working, either. I can't say the same for most dead FOSS that I've tried to resurrect. Usually I'll have to manage the outdated dependencies somehow, perhaps by writing a SHIM or somesuch; and probably significantly fiddle with the build system because Linux systems have changed significantly since the mid-90s. It's a difference of hours versus days of effort. I've done both, but guess which I simply _haven't the time for_ now? I've got family and friends that need my attention moreso than a dead piece of FOSS no one but myself seems to care about.
        fartcannon 6y ago
        Sure, you're obviously a popular person and your friends/family are always more important than updating software. But if you wanted to, you _can_ update dead Foss. Can't update that copy of Simcity, can you. Nopers.
        dleslie 6y ago
        Not quite, there are ways. The Diablo mod community is an excellent example: before the debug symbols were found on the psx release, the common method was to inject instructions directly into the binary. Similarly, Fallout and the Infinity engine games have mods that patch binaries and replace DLLs.
        fartcannon 6y ago
        Yes, that's right, certainly easier than having the source. Your friends and family must appreciate the time you saved them by injecting DLLS. You'd better hope you efforts don't get DMCA'd. Summarizing, closed source projects die. At best you can run them in an elaborate museum (emulator) and at worse, you can attempt to Frankenstein's monster them by injecting DLLs. Open source will outlive us all. How many places does Doom run?
        dleslie 6y ago
        Bin patching won't get you DMCA'd, and it's really not so different than writing a shim nowadays. Tooling has come a long way. Doom is a closed source game that was finished, polished, and then open sourced. Strange to use that as a FOSS example. The FOSS-from-the-start examples would be Tux Racer, 0ad, and so on.
        fartcannon 6y ago
        And yet, here we are running Doom on our toasters, refrigerators and watches.
- iforgotpassword 6y ago
  I really liked the old Presto-based Opera. How useful do you think running an 8 year old browser will be today, emulation or not? ;-) And the emulation argument can also be made for old open source software, so I don't see how that supports the argument for closed source. Maybe I just got lucky, but so far I've only ever "lost" CS software, example see above, but never OSS.

dleslie 6y ago

There's plenty of dead FOSS. Anything that relies on a library or build toolchain that's hard to find or configure comes to mind. Go spend some time trying to get RHIDE working, for instance. You're going to have to bring it back to life to do so. And yet, closed source seems to run just fine in emulation.

fartcannon 6y ago
Luckily, I can bring it back to life. Good luck emulating! That emulator's probably based on FOSS. :)
- dleslie 6y ago
  It generally takes less effort to emulate ancient software than to bring ancient FOSS back to life. Sure, the emulator is FOSS, but that's fitting in the 80/20 rule just fine. There's plenty of broken, abandoned and dead FOSS emulators, too.
  - fartcannon 6y ago
    But if you wanted to, you could bring them back to life. That's the value. With the emulator, first you need to write that emulator, and then you only get precisely that version of the software. After that, you're toast.
    - dleslie 6y ago
      Sure, but I'd have a tough time finding proprietary software that I'd want to use that isn't adequately emulated. As for updating, well, I'm not going to be updating most FOSS, either. Right now I can double-click an icon on my desktop that launches SimCity for Windows 3.1 inside of dosbox, and it works great. It didn't take much effort to get working, either. I can't say the same for most dead FOSS that I've tried to resurrect. Usually I'll have to manage the outdated dependencies somehow, perhaps by writing a SHIM or somesuch; and probably significantly fiddle with the build system because Linux systems have changed significantly since the mid-90s. It's a difference of hours versus days of effort. I've done both, but guess which I simply _haven't the time for_ now? I've got family and friends that need my attention moreso than a dead piece of FOSS no one but myself seems to care about.
      - fartcannon 6y ago
        Sure, you're obviously a popular person and your friends/family are always more important than updating software. But if you wanted to, you _can_ update dead Foss. Can't update that copy of Simcity, can you. Nopers.
        dleslie 6y ago
        Not quite, there are ways. The Diablo mod community is an excellent example: before the debug symbols were found on the psx release, the common method was to inject instructions directly into the binary. Similarly, Fallout and the Infinity engine games have mods that patch binaries and replace DLLs.
        fartcannon 6y ago
        Yes, that's right, certainly easier than having the source. Your friends and family must appreciate the time you saved them by injecting DLLS. You'd better hope you efforts don't get DMCA'd. Summarizing, closed source projects die. At best you can run them in an elaborate museum (emulator) and at worse, you can attempt to Frankenstein's monster them by injecting DLLs. Open source will outlive us all. How many places does Doom run?
        dleslie 6y ago
        Bin patching won't get you DMCA'd, and it's really not so different than writing a shim nowadays. Tooling has come a long way. Doom is a closed source game that was finished, polished, and then open sourced. Strange to use that as a FOSS example. The FOSS-from-the-start examples would be Tux Racer, 0ad, and so on.
        fartcannon 6y ago
        And yet, here we are running Doom on our toasters, refrigerators and watches.
iforgotpassword 6y ago
I really liked the old Presto-based Opera. How useful do you think running an 8 year old browser will be today, emulation or not? ;-) And the emulation argument can also be made for old open source software, so I don't see how that supports the argument for closed source. Maybe I just got lucky, but so far I've only ever "lost" CS software, example see above, but never OSS.