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> To which I normally say the US isn’t a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. I don’t know why I do that, it only causes people to dig in deeper to their p

> To which I normally say the US isn’t a democracy, but a Constitutional Republic. I don’t know why I do that, it only causes people to dig in deeper to their position. Perhaps because this is both pedantic and wrong? A state can be both a democracy and a republic, and many are, such as the United States.

dane-pgp 6y ago
> A state can be both a democracy and a republic, and many are, such as the United States. Always has been: "But a representative democracy, where the right of election is well secured and regulated & the exercise of the legislative, executive and judiciary authorities, is vested in select persons, chosen really and not nominally by the people, will in my opinion be most likely to be happy, regular and durable." -- Alexander Hamilton, 1777 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-01-02-0162 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-01-02-01...
- throwaway_kufu 6y ago
  An Alexander Hamilton quote is reaching pretty deep. Ever stop and wonder why you would quote that and not the Constitution directly? It’s because democracy doesn’t appear anywhere in the constitution. The law of the land, the very document that establishes our form of government doesn’t mention democracy, do you think it’s an accident or oversight of the founding fathers? Article 4. Section 4: The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...
  - dane-pgp 6y ago
    I don't know if the 17th Amendment is also reaching too deeply for you, but it does say: "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote." You could make the case that the constitution originally didn't create a country that perfectly implemented the ideals of a representative democracy, but that's trivially true due to slaves and women not having the right to vote. It may also be fair to say that the Electoral College is still a compromise between representative democracy and representation of the individual states, but it does nevertheless approximate a representative democracy, especially when the winner of the popular vote happens to become president.
throwaway_kufu 6y ago
Explain how the US is a democracy without providing the definition of a Republic and renaming that form of government as a democracy to suit your arguement.
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  Explain how the US isn't a democracy without providing the definition of "direct democracy" and renaming that form of government as democracy to suit your argument. In theory, I think it's possible for an anarchist republic to exist, where there are no elections or rulers, and also no monarchy or "private" interests owning the state.
- dodobirdlord 6y ago
  Do you want a dictionary definition? Here’s the one from Google’s built-in dictionary. de·moc·ra·cy /dəˈmäkrəsē/ a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. You seem to think that you have some technical claim to correctness. You are in no sense correct, technical or otherwise. The reason that people probably get annoyed by your claim is that nobody likes a pedant, but a pedant who is not even correct by some pedantic argument is particularly irritating. Moreover, nobody ever seems to subscribe to this weird definition where democracy is conflated with direct democracy except people trying to argue that the United States is not a democracy. I suspect motivated reasoning.

dane-pgp 6y ago

> A state can be both a democracy and a republic, and many are, such as the United States. Always has been: "But a representative democracy, where the right of election is well secured and regulated & the exercise of the legislative, executive and judiciary authorities, is vested in select persons, chosen really and not nominally by the people, will in my opinion be most likely to be happy, regular and durable." -- Alexander Hamilton, 1777 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-01-02-0162 https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-01-02-01...

throwaway_kufu 6y ago
An Alexander Hamilton quote is reaching pretty deep. Ever stop and wonder why you would quote that and not the Constitution directly? It’s because democracy doesn’t appear anywhere in the constitution. The law of the land, the very document that establishes our form of government doesn’t mention democracy, do you think it’s an accident or oversight of the founding fathers? Article 4. Section 4: The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government...
- dane-pgp 6y ago
  I don't know if the 17th Amendment is also reaching too deeply for you, but it does say: "The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote." You could make the case that the constitution originally didn't create a country that perfectly implemented the ideals of a representative democracy, but that's trivially true due to slaves and women not having the right to vote. It may also be fair to say that the Electoral College is still a compromise between representative democracy and representation of the individual states, but it does nevertheless approximate a representative democracy, especially when the winner of the popular vote happens to become president.

throwaway_kufu 6y ago

Explain how the US is a democracy without providing the definition of a Republic and renaming that form of government as a democracy to suit your arguement.

dane-pgp 6y ago
Explain how the US isn't a democracy without providing the definition of "direct democracy" and renaming that form of government as democracy to suit your argument. In theory, I think it's possible for an anarchist republic to exist, where there are no elections or rulers, and also no monarchy or "private" interests owning the state.
dodobirdlord 6y ago
Do you want a dictionary definition? Here’s the one from Google’s built-in dictionary. de·moc·ra·cy /dəˈmäkrəsē/ a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. You seem to think that you have some technical claim to correctness. You are in no sense correct, technical or otherwise. The reason that people probably get annoyed by your claim is that nobody likes a pedant, but a pedant who is not even correct by some pedantic argument is particularly irritating. Moreover, nobody ever seems to subscribe to this weird definition where democracy is conflated with direct democracy except people trying to argue that the United States is not a democracy. I suspect motivated reasoning.