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The #1 reason I end up cloning a repo and opening it in VS Code is to perform search, so it's a bummer search doesn't work. I'd even give up on the "1s" bit if

The #1 reason I end up cloning a repo and opening it in VS Code is to perform search, so it's a bummer search doesn't work. I'd even give up on the "1s" bit if I could open a full-text searchable version of the repo.

renerthr 6y ago
What do you guys think of vim with fzf? You can also use the `tree` command. And it consumes less RAM, probably. Why is it that VS Code seems to be so popular?
- dmlittle 6y ago
  It's not that you _can't_ do these things in vim/emacs it's that the experience is different. I'd argue that VS Code is closer to an IDE than just an editor. For example, I can Cmd+Click on a function usage and it takes me to its definition. If I hover my mouse over it it displays information about the variables/function/data structure/etc. If I'm running docker containers I can attach a shell, view its logs, start/stop/restart it with the click of a button. There are thousands of extensions that allow me to augment the user experience – a Terraform extension that allows me to open resource documentation with the click of a button, running diffs on code, running code formatters, etc. Yes, all of this is possible with vim/emacs plugins but its not out of the box and the UX is not the same (and you're lying to yourself if you claim this isn't true). Installing and managing all of these plugins (in vim at least) is a lot more painful. As for the RAM consumption, it's honestly minimal. Running Chrome is more of a resource hog than VS Code.
  - RMPR 6y ago
    > Yes, all of this is possible with vim/emacs plugins but its not out of the box and the UX is not the same (and you're lying to yourself if you claim this isn't true). Installing and managing all of these plugins (in vim at least) is a lot more painful. Nitpicking a bit, but neovim has LSP built-in so you don't really need a plugin to achieve such basic tasks.
    - bern4444 6y ago
      It has built in LSP, but I still need a few plugins to get additional functionality like auto complete, auto import (thanks nvim-compe!), definition preview (lsp-saga) etc. I love nvim too and the direction its going, but the parent comment is correct. Its a lot more painful to set up compared to VSCode.
  - onetom 6y ago
    > ...it's honestly minimal. then you compare it to something, which is even more "careless" with memory. what does this question has to do with honesty? it's objectively very wasteful. period. compared to what, though? well, for one, compared to the amount of data it's working with.
    - dmlittle 6y ago
      Is it high? Yes. Is it completely wasteful? Debatable. Looking at the memory utilization of my VS Code installation with all of the extension I have is currently using just shy of 200MB. Most entry level laptops today come with 8GB of memory. 200MB out of the 8GB is ~2.5% of the total memory available. If you have 16GB that drops it down to ~1.25%. Yes, vim will use much less memory but let's not pretend you're going to be using all of that memory doing something else (and if you are, you're the edge case). Most of the time it will stay idle, you might as well use it if it's a program you're more comfortable and productive with. I'm not saying that I'm OK with the amount of resources Chrome and Electron apps utilize but the argument that we don't have enough memory for a few of them, specifically the ones that you use on your day-to-day work is honestly not a strong one.
      - TeMPOraL 6y ago
        I agree that with the number you gave (200MB for a primary work tool) it's not that big of an issue, but in general, I strongly disagree with this argument: > but let's not pretend you're going to be using all of that memory doing something else (and if you are, you're the edge case) Of course I'm going to be using all that memory. For work, besides the IDE, I also have to run a mail client, an IM client and a browser, and likely a host of other developer tools. Every now and then, I may need to run a build, at which point the resource usage of the computer spikes. If, together, this exceeds available resources, something will have to give. Most likely, everything will slow down, and the SSD wear will increase. For non-programmer specialists, the same applies, just with different software. For regular users, the same applies, just with different software and much less resources. It's the peak usage that matters, not the average. Wasteful software limits the amount of things that can be done on a computer simultaneously. So it's not "we shouldn't care about our software's resource use because users don't do multiple things at a time". It's "users don't do multiple things at a time because they can't, because we don't care about resource utilization".
- shrimpx 6y ago
  VSCode has high quality support for programming languages out of the box, and suggestions for which packages you should install, with one-click install. But you can achieve similar results in vim/emacs with more research, fiddling with config and manually installing deps.
  - gpanders 6y ago
    > But you can achieve similar results in vim/emacs with more research, fiddling with config and manually installing deps. And some people find this fun and enjoyable, and that’s okay. Others find it tedious and obnoxious and that’s okay too. Thankfully there is something for everybody.

renerthr 6y ago

What do you guys think of vim with fzf? You can also use the `tree` command. And it consumes less RAM, probably. Why is it that VS Code seems to be so popular?

dmlittle 6y ago
It's not that you _can't_ do these things in vim/emacs it's that the experience is different. I'd argue that VS Code is closer to an IDE than just an editor. For example, I can Cmd+Click on a function usage and it takes me to its definition. If I hover my mouse over it it displays information about the variables/function/data structure/etc. If I'm running docker containers I can attach a shell, view its logs, start/stop/restart it with the click of a button. There are thousands of extensions that allow me to augment the user experience – a Terraform extension that allows me to open resource documentation with the click of a button, running diffs on code, running code formatters, etc. Yes, all of this is possible with vim/emacs plugins but its not out of the box and the UX is not the same (and you're lying to yourself if you claim this isn't true). Installing and managing all of these plugins (in vim at least) is a lot more painful. As for the RAM consumption, it's honestly minimal. Running Chrome is more of a resource hog than VS Code.
- RMPR 6y ago
  > Yes, all of this is possible with vim/emacs plugins but its not out of the box and the UX is not the same (and you're lying to yourself if you claim this isn't true). Installing and managing all of these plugins (in vim at least) is a lot more painful. Nitpicking a bit, but neovim has LSP built-in so you don't really need a plugin to achieve such basic tasks.
  - bern4444 6y ago
    It has built in LSP, but I still need a few plugins to get additional functionality like auto complete, auto import (thanks nvim-compe!), definition preview (lsp-saga) etc. I love nvim too and the direction its going, but the parent comment is correct. Its a lot more painful to set up compared to VSCode.
- onetom 6y ago
  > ...it's honestly minimal. then you compare it to something, which is even more "careless" with memory. what does this question has to do with honesty? it's objectively very wasteful. period. compared to what, though? well, for one, compared to the amount of data it's working with.
  - dmlittle 6y ago
    Is it high? Yes. Is it completely wasteful? Debatable. Looking at the memory utilization of my VS Code installation with all of the extension I have is currently using just shy of 200MB. Most entry level laptops today come with 8GB of memory. 200MB out of the 8GB is ~2.5% of the total memory available. If you have 16GB that drops it down to ~1.25%. Yes, vim will use much less memory but let's not pretend you're going to be using all of that memory doing something else (and if you are, you're the edge case). Most of the time it will stay idle, you might as well use it if it's a program you're more comfortable and productive with. I'm not saying that I'm OK with the amount of resources Chrome and Electron apps utilize but the argument that we don't have enough memory for a few of them, specifically the ones that you use on your day-to-day work is honestly not a strong one.
    - TeMPOraL 6y ago
      I agree that with the number you gave (200MB for a primary work tool) it's not that big of an issue, but in general, I strongly disagree with this argument: > but let's not pretend you're going to be using all of that memory doing something else (and if you are, you're the edge case) Of course I'm going to be using all that memory. For work, besides the IDE, I also have to run a mail client, an IM client and a browser, and likely a host of other developer tools. Every now and then, I may need to run a build, at which point the resource usage of the computer spikes. If, together, this exceeds available resources, something will have to give. Most likely, everything will slow down, and the SSD wear will increase. For non-programmer specialists, the same applies, just with different software. For regular users, the same applies, just with different software and much less resources. It's the peak usage that matters, not the average. Wasteful software limits the amount of things that can be done on a computer simultaneously. So it's not "we shouldn't care about our software's resource use because users don't do multiple things at a time". It's "users don't do multiple things at a time because they can't, because we don't care about resource utilization".
shrimpx 6y ago
VSCode has high quality support for programming languages out of the box, and suggestions for which packages you should install, with one-click install. But you can achieve similar results in vim/emacs with more research, fiddling with config and manually installing deps.
- gpanders 6y ago
  > But you can achieve similar results in vim/emacs with more research, fiddling with config and manually installing deps. And some people find this fun and enjoyable, and that’s okay. Others find it tedious and obnoxious and that’s okay too. Thankfully there is something for everybody.