6 ms·

So, the police in these instances are breaching copyright, specifically "performance rights", which prohibit the public playing of music outside of a circle of

So, the police in these instances are breaching copyright, specifically "performance rights", which prohibit the public playing of music outside of a circle of family and friends, unless they have received permission from the copyright holders. I'll hold my breath while the individual police officers are pursued for these egregious copyright violations with as much vigour as those receiving take-down notices. https://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_a_public_performance_of_music_and_what_is_the_performing_right1 https://www.bmi.com/faq/entry/what_is_a_public_performance_o...

netsharc 6y ago
Next time, bring an RIAA lawyer to any cop encounter... Hah, it'll be like the joke of bringing a predator to get rid of some insects in your home, and a predator to get rid of the first predator, and ending up with an apex predator...
- Judgmentality 6y ago
  > and ending up with an apex predator... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator
- soVeryTired 6y ago
  “When winter rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.”
- SilasX 6y ago
  Or the "joke" of arming mujahideen to fight your communist enemy, and then they turn the guns the wrong way.
magicalhippo 6y ago
What's preventing them from making their own tune, put it on cdbaby or whatever it was to get it into the content id system, and then issue copyright takedowns? Similar to this[1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz14Ul-r63w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz14Ul-r63w
- bentcorner 6y ago
  IANAL, but then the uploader could file a counter-notice claiming fair use (which seems reasonable).
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    But AFAIK it's primarily up to the copyright holder to decide if it is fair use or not. From YouTube's help page[1]: YouTube gets many takedown requests to remove videos that copyright owners claim are infringing under copyright law. Sometimes these requests target videos that seem like clear examples of fair use. Courts have decided that copyright owners must consider fair use before they send a copyright takedown notice. Because of this, we often ask copyright owners to confirm they’ve done this analysis. [1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9783148?hl=en#zippy=%2Cexamples-of-youtubes-fair-use-protection https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9783148?hl=en#zipp...
PragmaticPulp 6y ago
That's a stretch. The purpose of that law was to prevent public unlicensed public performances, such as playing a song over a public address system to a crowd at a park, not someone listening to their personal cell phone at normal volumes. It would certainly not be good if we set a legal precedent that it's illegal to listen to music at any volume that a nearby person could hear or record.
- talaketu 6y ago
  Not a stretch, considering this is their intent. See in particular the 2nd point from 17 U.S. Code § 101 - Definitions To perform or display a work “publicly” means— (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered; or (2) to transmit or otherwise communicate a performance or display of the work to a place specified by clause (1) or to the public, by means of any device or process, whether the members of the public capable of receiving the performance or display receive it in the same place or in separate places and at the same time or at different times.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    The purpose is to prevent revenue loss by the recording company who could host their own public event (or selling rights thereof). It would be an impossible argument to make that the police (or anyone) playing a song on their phone is reducing the ability of the record company from gaining revenues from hosting their own local event.
    - BLKNSLVR 6y ago
      And yet filming a police officer who's playing a copyrighted tune, and uploading it to Youtube results in a take-down. I don't think many folks are going to YouTube to listen to music from a filmed phone. "reducing the ability of the record company from gaining revenues"
      - 6y ago
BLKNSLVR 6y ago
Filming them breaching copyright as evidence of their breaching copyright is the solution. Send to copyright troll lawyers and the various RIAA hangers on that attempt to prosecute these breaches.
- jariel 6y ago
  ? The filming and distribution of someone listening to music is literally the breach of copyright, not anything the cop is doing, i.e. playing music to himself, which is obviously legal in every sense.
  - paulmd 6y ago
    > The filming and distribution of someone listening to music is literally the breach of copyright, not anything the cop is doing no, unlicensed public performance is itself a breach of copyright. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/music-public-performance-rights-ignore-48989/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/music-public-performance-r...
    - jariel 6y ago
      ? Playing music to yourself is not a 'public performance'. It's completely unambiguous.
      - accounted 6y ago
        Goes to show why the cop wouldnt like to be recorded. Ridiculous people who would freak out if a police officer bothered them for listening to music are now their own worst enemies.
      - paulmd 6y ago
        > Playing music to yourself is not a 'public performance'. cops weren't playing music to themselves though, they were playing it at a protest, audible to all the public participants. > It's completely unambiguous. what's your angle here? like yes, this is completely unambiguous, you can't do what the cops are doing, that is public performance of music. why are you digging for a reason to justify what is clearly an illegal action?
jariel 6y ago
No, the police are not breaching copyright by playing music, it's very obviously the person doing the filming and posting to public channels that is breaking copyright if anything is being broken. Playing music to yourself is 100% legal. Making videos of content of said music, and posting to YouTube, is not. "I'll hold my breath while the individual police officers are pursued for these egregious copyright violations" So given that it's the person filming that is breaking the law, and not the cop, I'll assume you'd point the same disdain for those individuals egregious breaking the law?
- vixen99 6y ago
  No copyright broken if the music is filtered out prior to upload to a public platform. At the same time, deliberately playing music while conducting an activity that entails conversational interchange is clearly a ploy to prevent that which I understand to be (perhaps incorrectly) a lawful activity in the US. https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-police-officers-and-public-officials https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-police-officers-a...
- sunderw 6y ago
  Considering the police officer is on duty and inside the precinct - which is aimed at serving the public, I wouldn't consider this "playing music to yourself". Otherwise, every employee in bars and restaurants could "play music to themselves", without paying anything and without infringing copyrights ?
  - jariel 6y ago
    That he is on duty is irrelevant. If he's playing music for himself - even one other person, it's not a public performance. The arguments being made here are infantile, and embarrassing. Because people 'hate cops' (shameful), they use magical thinking to twist even common sense upside down. The person making a video public is the person making something public, not the cop.
- mannerheim 6y ago
  > What is a public performance? > A public performance is one that occurs either in a public place or any place where people gather (other than a small circle of a family or its social acquaintances). https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing > Generally speaking, public performances are very broadly interpreted under the law and are defined as performing “at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered.” This has been interpreted to mean that most performances at so-called private clubs and fraternal organizations are “public” under the copyright law. https://www.bbb.org/council/for-businesses/toolkits/bbb-brochure-music-in-the-market-place https://www.bbb.org/council/for-businesses/toolkits/bbb-broc... It's a place open to the public, so it is a public performance.
ginko 6y ago
Enforcing copyright against this at best seems like a stop-gap solution. Next they'll legally play the official police union song and use the DMCA against people recording and sharing that.

netsharc 6y ago

Next time, bring an RIAA lawyer to any cop encounter... Hah, it'll be like the joke of bringing a predator to get rid of some insects in your home, and a predator to get rid of the first predator, and ending up with an apex predator...

Judgmentality 6y ago
> and ending up with an apex predator... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Atomics_MQ-1_Predator
soVeryTired 6y ago
“When winter rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.”
SilasX 6y ago
Or the "joke" of arming mujahideen to fight your communist enemy, and then they turn the guns the wrong way.

magicalhippo 6y ago

What's preventing them from making their own tune, put it on cdbaby or whatever it was to get it into the content id system, and then issue copyright takedowns? Similar to this[1]. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz14Ul-r63w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz14Ul-r63w

bentcorner 6y ago
IANAL, but then the uploader could file a counter-notice claiming fair use (which seems reasonable).
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  But AFAIK it's primarily up to the copyright holder to decide if it is fair use or not. From YouTube's help page[1]: YouTube gets many takedown requests to remove videos that copyright owners claim are infringing under copyright law. Sometimes these requests target videos that seem like clear examples of fair use. Courts have decided that copyright owners must consider fair use before they send a copyright takedown notice. Because of this, we often ask copyright owners to confirm they’ve done this analysis. [1]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9783148?hl=en#zippy=%2Cexamples-of-youtubes-fair-use-protection https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9783148?hl=en#zipp...

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

That's a stretch. The purpose of that law was to prevent public unlicensed public performances, such as playing a song over a public address system to a crowd at a park, not someone listening to their personal cell phone at normal volumes. It would certainly not be good if we set a legal precedent that it's illegal to listen to music at any volume that a nearby person could hear or record.

talaketu 6y ago
Not a stretch, considering this is their intent. See in particular the 2nd point from 17 U.S. Code § 101 - Definitions To perform or display a work “publicly” means— (1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered; or (2) to transmit or otherwise communicate a performance or display of the work to a place specified by clause (1) or to the public, by means of any device or process, whether the members of the public capable of receiving the performance or display receive it in the same place or in separate places and at the same time or at different times.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  The purpose is to prevent revenue loss by the recording company who could host their own public event (or selling rights thereof). It would be an impossible argument to make that the police (or anyone) playing a song on their phone is reducing the ability of the record company from gaining revenues from hosting their own local event.
  - BLKNSLVR 6y ago
    And yet filming a police officer who's playing a copyrighted tune, and uploading it to Youtube results in a take-down. I don't think many folks are going to YouTube to listen to music from a filmed phone. "reducing the ability of the record company from gaining revenues"
    - 6y ago

BLKNSLVR 6y ago

Filming them breaching copyright as evidence of their breaching copyright is the solution. Send to copyright troll lawyers and the various RIAA hangers on that attempt to prosecute these breaches.

jariel 6y ago
? The filming and distribution of someone listening to music is literally the breach of copyright, not anything the cop is doing, i.e. playing music to himself, which is obviously legal in every sense.
- paulmd 6y ago
  > The filming and distribution of someone listening to music is literally the breach of copyright, not anything the cop is doing no, unlicensed public performance is itself a breach of copyright. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/music-public-performance-rights-ignore-48989/ https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/music-public-performance-r...
  - jariel 6y ago
    ? Playing music to yourself is not a 'public performance'. It's completely unambiguous.
    - accounted 6y ago
      Goes to show why the cop wouldnt like to be recorded. Ridiculous people who would freak out if a police officer bothered them for listening to music are now their own worst enemies.
    - paulmd 6y ago
      > Playing music to yourself is not a 'public performance'. cops weren't playing music to themselves though, they were playing it at a protest, audible to all the public participants. > It's completely unambiguous. what's your angle here? like yes, this is completely unambiguous, you can't do what the cops are doing, that is public performance of music. why are you digging for a reason to justify what is clearly an illegal action?

jariel 6y ago

No, the police are not breaching copyright by playing music, it's very obviously the person doing the filming and posting to public channels that is breaking copyright if anything is being broken. Playing music to yourself is 100% legal. Making videos of content of said music, and posting to YouTube, is not. "I'll hold my breath while the individual police officers are pursued for these egregious copyright violations" So given that it's the person filming that is breaking the law, and not the cop, I'll assume you'd point the same disdain for those individuals egregious breaking the law?

vixen99 6y ago
No copyright broken if the music is filtered out prior to upload to a public platform. At the same time, deliberately playing music while conducting an activity that entails conversational interchange is clearly a ploy to prevent that which I understand to be (perhaps incorrectly) a lawful activity in the US. https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-police-officers-and-public-officials https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/recording-police-officers-a...
sunderw 6y ago
Considering the police officer is on duty and inside the precinct - which is aimed at serving the public, I wouldn't consider this "playing music to yourself". Otherwise, every employee in bars and restaurants could "play music to themselves", without paying anything and without infringing copyrights ?
- jariel 6y ago
  That he is on duty is irrelevant. If he's playing music for himself - even one other person, it's not a public performance. The arguments being made here are infantile, and embarrassing. Because people 'hate cops' (shameful), they use magical thinking to twist even common sense upside down. The person making a video public is the person making something public, not the cop.
mannerheim 6y ago
> What is a public performance? > A public performance is one that occurs either in a public place or any place where people gather (other than a small circle of a family or its social acquaintances). https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing https://www.ascap.com/help/ascap-licensing > Generally speaking, public performances are very broadly interpreted under the law and are defined as performing “at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered.” This has been interpreted to mean that most performances at so-called private clubs and fraternal organizations are “public” under the copyright law. https://www.bbb.org/council/for-businesses/toolkits/bbb-brochure-music-in-the-market-place https://www.bbb.org/council/for-businesses/toolkits/bbb-broc... It's a place open to the public, so it is a public performance.

ginko 6y ago

Enforcing copyright against this at best seems like a stop-gap solution. Next they'll legally play the official police union song and use the DMCA against people recording and sharing that.