14 ms·

Prices for pre-tech tractors have been spiking as a result, too: https://www.startribune.com/for-tech-weary-midwest-farmers-40-year-old-tractors-now-a-hot-commo

by zucked 6y ago

Prices for pre-tech tractors have been spiking as a result, too: https://www.startribune.com/for-tech-weary-midwest-farmers-40-year-old-tractors-now-a-hot-commodity/566737082/?refresh=true https://www.startribune.com/for-tech-weary-midwest-farmers-4...

dandersh 6y ago
Which is why I was floored when my friend told me that not only did they get less than expected for theirs, but the person bought it to scrap it. This was in MN and using an online auction too.
- VikingCoder 6y ago
  Sounds like the market isn't tech savvy, which is a huge shame.
- meowster 6y ago
  Either your friend was selling for below scrap value, or maybe the buyer worked for John Deere.
missedthecue 6y ago
Seems like a market opportunity for someone to start building simple tractors.
- hoseja 6y ago
  Or this is happening precisely because the current manufacturers are confident they've managed to close all entrypoints. A "simple tractor" probably has no chance passing environmental and other regulations.
  - teeray 6y ago
    This has been solved in trucking by “glider kits.” It’s basically a way to ship-of-theseus your way into a “new” truck without meeting emissions, since you have an old, meticulously rebuilt engine (but still grandfathered).
    - nate_meurer 6y ago
      Glider engines are not meticulously rebuilt. The most prolific glider maker (Fitzgerald Glider Kits) is famous for its trashy rebuilds. Anecdotally: https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/threads/buy-a-glider-or-no-2021-illegal-or-not.1432921/ https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/thre... These rebuilt engines generate at least 20 times the pollution as emissions-certified engines: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2018/02/heavy-duty-truck-glider-kit-rule/ https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2018/02/heavy-duty-truck-glider...
  - thescriptkiddie 6y ago
    Emissions compliant diesel engines are available as off-the-shelf parts. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt an existing tractor design to fit a truck engine.
- nielsbot 6y ago
  Or to sell repairability as a feature.
- tkinom 6y ago
  3D print spare parts for 20-30 years tractors>
- ActorNightly 6y ago
  I really wonder how big of a problem with tractors, considering there really isn't anything out there for this issue. Looking at car world, for cars even with locked ecus, you can get things like piggyback or standalone units, transmission controllers, awd controllers, dynamic suspension controllers, and so on, because there is a huge market for it both in amateur racing and enthusiast modification, and most of these void warranty. Seems like this would be pretty straightforward to do - in the end, all mechanical equipment follows some raw control signal that easy to intercept and modify. Legally, you can even get around most restrictions by selling programmable modules and then making the software open source. My guess is that paying John Deer for whatever they ask is not a big deal financially to most (although probably not all) farmers.
  - netfl0 6y ago
    "Midwest farmers face a crisis. Hundreds are dying by suicide." "But U.S. farmers are saddled with near-record debt, declaring bankruptcy at rising rates and selling off their farms amid an uncertain future clouded by climate change and whipsawed by tariffs and bailouts." https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/03/09/climate-tariffs-debt-and-isolation-drive-some-farmers-suicide/4955865002/ https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/0...
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  >Seems like a market opportunity for someone to start building simple tractors. That would create a opportunity for the EPA to shoot your dog. This isn't a market you can just enter. Manufacturing goods that have to last for decades doesn't start up and scale up like software. It would take so much time to build up a competitor that the incumbents would have more than enough notice to crush you.
- spaced-out 6y ago
  The farmer in the article got what he considers a good quality used tractor for $18,000. How will you convince him to buy one from your new, untested company? I don't know much about tractors, but I don't think you can go much lower than $18k and still make your costs back.
- markdown 6y ago
  The worlds top selling tractor already exists, and is available in the US. Mahindra.
  - aksss 6y ago
    Mustn’t a top-selling anything exist already by definition?

by zucked 6y ago

dandersh 6y ago

Which is why I was floored when my friend told me that not only did they get less than expected for theirs, but the person bought it to scrap it. This was in MN and using an online auction too.

VikingCoder 6y ago
Sounds like the market isn't tech savvy, which is a huge shame.
meowster 6y ago
Either your friend was selling for below scrap value, or maybe the buyer worked for John Deere.

missedthecue 6y ago

Seems like a market opportunity for someone to start building simple tractors.

hoseja 6y ago
Or this is happening precisely because the current manufacturers are confident they've managed to close all entrypoints. A "simple tractor" probably has no chance passing environmental and other regulations.
- teeray 6y ago
  This has been solved in trucking by “glider kits.” It’s basically a way to ship-of-theseus your way into a “new” truck without meeting emissions, since you have an old, meticulously rebuilt engine (but still grandfathered).
  - nate_meurer 6y ago
    Glider engines are not meticulously rebuilt. The most prolific glider maker (Fitzgerald Glider Kits) is famous for its trashy rebuilds. Anecdotally: https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/threads/buy-a-glider-or-no-2021-illegal-or-not.1432921/ https://www.thetruckersreport.com/truckingindustryforum/thre... These rebuilt engines generate at least 20 times the pollution as emissions-certified engines: https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2018/02/heavy-duty-truck-glider-kit-rule/ https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2018/02/heavy-duty-truck-glider...
- thescriptkiddie 6y ago
  Emissions compliant diesel engines are available as off-the-shelf parts. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt an existing tractor design to fit a truck engine.
nielsbot 6y ago
Or to sell repairability as a feature.
tkinom 6y ago
3D print spare parts for 20-30 years tractors>
ActorNightly 6y ago
I really wonder how big of a problem with tractors, considering there really isn't anything out there for this issue. Looking at car world, for cars even with locked ecus, you can get things like piggyback or standalone units, transmission controllers, awd controllers, dynamic suspension controllers, and so on, because there is a huge market for it both in amateur racing and enthusiast modification, and most of these void warranty. Seems like this would be pretty straightforward to do - in the end, all mechanical equipment follows some raw control signal that easy to intercept and modify. Legally, you can even get around most restrictions by selling programmable modules and then making the software open source. My guess is that paying John Deer for whatever they ask is not a big deal financially to most (although probably not all) farmers.
- netfl0 6y ago
  "Midwest farmers face a crisis. Hundreds are dying by suicide." "But U.S. farmers are saddled with near-record debt, declaring bankruptcy at rising rates and selling off their farms amid an uncertain future clouded by climate change and whipsawed by tariffs and bailouts." https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/03/09/climate-tariffs-debt-and-isolation-drive-some-farmers-suicide/4955865002/ https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/0...
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>Seems like a market opportunity for someone to start building simple tractors. That would create a opportunity for the EPA to shoot your dog. This isn't a market you can just enter. Manufacturing goods that have to last for decades doesn't start up and scale up like software. It would take so much time to build up a competitor that the incumbents would have more than enough notice to crush you.
spaced-out 6y ago
The farmer in the article got what he considers a good quality used tractor for $18,000. How will you convince him to buy one from your new, untested company? I don't know much about tractors, but I don't think you can go much lower than $18k and still make your costs back.
markdown 6y ago
The worlds top selling tractor already exists, and is available in the US. Mahindra.
- aksss 6y ago
  Mustn’t a top-selling anything exist already by definition?