3 ms·
> Why does it need your phone number? Great question! It's a good way to make it easy for general-purpose users with limited technical expertise to adopt, use,
by Kalium 6y ago
> Why does it need your phone number?
Great question! It's a good way to make it easy for general-purpose users with limited technical expertise to adopt, use, and find one another.
> Seems pretty weird for a “secure” program.
You're right! It's definitely weird, but it's also understandable as a tradeoff in favor of less technically adept users. It's not one I'm in love with, but I think it makes sense.
> And why does it use AWS? Isn’t that subject to all kinds of privacy risks including National Security Letters?
The risk from NSLs depends a lot on what is hosted. If it's opaquely encrypted blobs, there's minimal risk. And where could things be hosted that wouldn't be subject to privacy risks from a government of some sort?
> Why isn’t Signal just a Free and open source, infrastructure-less p2p solution?
That's such a good idea that Signal is already a Free and open source solution!
That said, nothing is ever actually infrastructure-less, just like no data store is actually schema-less. There's just explicit infrastructure and implicit infrastructure. Implicit p2p infrastructure is not immune to governments or NSLs, and is often subject to more by virtue of being in more countries.
- Jkvngt 6y ago> Great question! It's a good way to make it easy for general-purpose users with limited technical expertise to adopt, use, and find one another. Don’t patronize me you glib shill. There is no reason beyond tracking and surveillance to require a phone number. Rosenfeld’s admitted this already in a roundabout way and has claimed they’re “working on” not needing a phone number. Any dissident could end up dead if they trust big tech with their phone number.
- Kalium 6y agoDiscoverability, familiarity, and usability are good reasons that many find convincing. I understand that some people might disagree. Personal insults aren't called for. Please stop.
- Jkvngt 6y agoThere's no reason to post in the fashion of a glib marketing department person if you're not. And I don't think ANYBODY finds requiring a phone number "because it's discoverable, familiar, usable" is convincing especially when considering that dissidents are apparently one of the major groups this is marketed to. The whole thing smells funny, there's no reason to require a phone number other than Rosendfeld WANTS it.
- int_19h 6y agoHow many casual users have you personally convinced to switch to some E2E-encrypted messaging app?
- detaro 6y agoThe major group Signal wants to market to is normal people, and they've stated repeatedly that they optimize for that over maximum security with what they consider worse usability. And even though I disagree with the focus on phone numbers and wish they'd prioritized a model that makes them optional, I do understand the network effect argument for including it. Kind of annoying that the alternatives that do it better have a hard time, but I also have to admit that it proves Moxies point to a degree.
- Jkvngt 6y agoNormal people have no issues creating user handles on Reddit and Discord and Twitter. Again, the only reason to require a phone number is because Rosenfeld wants it.
- detaro 6y agoNo, because using phone numbers gives you contact discovery through the phone book "for free" (with further privacy implications Signal has discussed at length). And an entire argument around it providing a social graph independent of service infrastructure that is important for some aspects of user freedom - again something that has been discussed publicly at length, both from Moxie and from other players in the wider messenger ecosystem (many of which at least partially disagree and have made different tradeoffs - but generally acknowledge the tradeoff exists).