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> Having made rules is not sufficient for those rules to be just Quite. And if one doesn't think the rules are just, then simply don't play the game. However,

> Having made rules is not sufficient for those rules to be just Quite. And if one doesn't think the rules are just, then simply don't play the game. However, rules such as "don't spam an issue", "don't spam a PR", "don't insult others", "please use the forum for this discussion" strike me as being simple, sensible and just rules. Which rules are unjust, in this context? > Rules are not themselves authority bearing - nor can one side be upset when they make obnoxious rules and get push back. In a dictatorship - such as a web site forum - the rules are, in fact, authority bearing. Since a user or their content can be removed at the whim of an operator, that authority is proven. This entire dramatic performance has been because the entirety of one "side" is upset when they've been subjected to pushback because they have broken the rules, and the authority of those rules has been effected. > When you respond to criticism of those rules by deleting the criticisms... well it's clear you are no longer hosting an open forum and instead trying to shut down speech you don't like. You are conflating what happened here. A user committed malconduct (of the sort that most projects would react badly to) and their offending material was deleted because it was an unhelpful duplicate placed in the wrong forum. Such content can only be deleted because it is...unhelpful, duplicate and in the wrong forum. All that was needed was the discussion moved to where it was expected. GitHub projects are not open forums and the PR was not speech. > The posters did not use insults, they did not attack the people behind signal I refute this statement with the following: https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuecomment-774417678 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuec... https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuecomment-774417769 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuec... https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuecomment-774418104 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuec... https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuecomment-774433140 https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-TLS-Proxy/pull/15#issuec... https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-from-their-github-orgs/27404/2 https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-fr... (more a threat than insult, I guess) https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-from-their-github-orgs/27404/26 https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-fr... https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-from-their-github-orgs/27404/29 https://community.signalusers.org/t/why-signal-blocked-me-fr... > Shutting down a potentially serious security bug They were not shut down to begin with - they were simply asked to post in the correct forum. Once they started their abusive behaviour they had to be shut down because they couldn't behave themselves. > This isn't a child's baseball game, this is a situation where lives are at risk. "Sorry, we really tried to put out the fire, but your yard sign made me upset and I had to go write in my journal instead of doing my job." I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here, other than proving one of my latter points.

vorpalhex 6y ago
> I refute this statement with the following.. If any of those so much as raise an eyebrow, you must be the most sheltered darling on the entire internet. "Moxie and Signal is shit"? Really? I get called worse names in online gaming by kids. > ..their offending material was deleted because it was an unhelpful... Their offending material was a security issue! A fair amount of people seem to share their concerns. If it's in the wrong place then move it, and if it's a duplicate then close it and add a link to the original where conversation is happening. If you can't handle basic moderation of your forum, then stop using your damned forum and maybe use github issues like every other project. > In a dictatorship... Yeah, Signal can throw a tantrum, take their toys and go home. So can us as their userbase and the people who recommend it. Right now I'm one of those people who can be reached on Signal and who recommends it to others - and if Signal can't find a way to appropriately receive feedback then I'm no longer going to be doing that. > Once they started their abusive behaviour they had to be shut down.. No. They didn't. Signal staff could have literally just responded: "Hey, thank you for the report, we're examining this now and will update as we can. Please mind the language." That's literally all it would have taken. Instead Signal continues to stick it's head in the sand and ruin it's relationship with it's users.

vorpalhex 6y ago

> I refute this statement with the following.. If any of those so much as raise an eyebrow, you must be the most sheltered darling on the entire internet. "Moxie and Signal is shit"? Really? I get called worse names in online gaming by kids. > ..their offending material was deleted because it was an unhelpful... Their offending material was a security issue! A fair amount of people seem to share their concerns. If it's in the wrong place then move it, and if it's a duplicate then close it and add a link to the original where conversation is happening. If you can't handle basic moderation of your forum, then stop using your damned forum and maybe use github issues like every other project. > In a dictatorship... Yeah, Signal can throw a tantrum, take their toys and go home. So can us as their userbase and the people who recommend it. Right now I'm one of those people who can be reached on Signal and who recommends it to others - and if Signal can't find a way to appropriately receive feedback then I'm no longer going to be doing that. > Once they started their abusive behaviour they had to be shut down.. No. They didn't. Signal staff could have literally just responded: "Hey, thank you for the report, we're examining this now and will update as we can. Please mind the language." That's literally all it would have taken. Instead Signal continues to stick it's head in the sand and ruin it's relationship with it's users.