5 ms·

If there's enough demand, they'll fix this. Especially after the patents run out.

TheRealPomax 6y ago
This ignores the cost of missed opportunity: investing any amount of time and money on something else is almost certainly going to generate higher RoI than trying to make fast, responsive eink displays work. It's almost never about whether a company can do something, but about whether they leave money on the table by not doing something else.
robinsoh 6y ago
> Especially after the patents run out. I see this mistaken assumption repeated everywhere by people unfamiliar with the display technology industry. You can attend display conferences and see lots of startups trying to make stable displays. The limitation is not patents. You can ask a simple question to prove this to yourself. Which E Ink patent is blocking progress and will suddenly cause the industry to become amazing after the patent runs out? At best, you'll get lazy answers like ALL of E Ink's patents.
- ZeroGravitas 6y ago
  That's not a lazy answer, "patent thickets" are a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_thicket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_thicket
  - robinsoh 6y ago
    It is when it is not applicable to the topic being discussed.
- monocasa 6y ago
  People said the same thing about 3d printing, and as soon as the FDM patents expired in 2009 the field exploded.
  - robinsoh 6y ago
    Isn't that a Trumpism? "People said". I noticed nobody answered the simple question of which patent is blocking progress.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      Not everything Trump might have said is a "Trumpism". As for the statement "people said", it's absolutely fair to point out that your argument has been incorrectly stated in the past in very similar circumstances. And you can look up e-ink's dozen or so patents that still have about half of their lifetime left. They're pretty fundamental to the technology. I personally try not to patent bomb here on HN so I don't push someone into willful infringement.
      - robinsoh 6y ago
        I don't see a concrete answer to the simple question of which patent it is that is blocking the industry. Is that question somehow illegitimate?
numpad0 6y ago
There’s a perfect alternative to E Ink for laptops called Liquid Crystal Display(LCD)
- FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
  Good point, it has many of the same advantages: low power, sunlight readability. Why isn't it used more often? The OLPC had a dual LCD/LED display (PixelQi) and it worked very well.
  - AlanYx 6y ago
    RLCD is starting to pick up in some niches in China (e.g., the Hisense Q5). Its main disadvantage is that it tends to have a color cast depending on the nature of the ambient light, which e-ink doesn't, but it is cheaper and has higher refresh rates.
    - FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
      Glad to hear RLCD is finding a niche between e-ink and other displays, thanks for the recommendation.

This ignores the cost of missed opportunity: investing any amount of time and money on something else is almost certainly going to generate higher RoI than trying to make fast, responsive eink displays work. It's almost never about whether a company can do something, but about whether they leave money on the table by not doing something else.

robinsoh 6y ago

> Especially after the patents run out. I see this mistaken assumption repeated everywhere by people unfamiliar with the display technology industry. You can attend display conferences and see lots of startups trying to make stable displays. The limitation is not patents. You can ask a simple question to prove this to yourself. Which E Ink patent is blocking progress and will suddenly cause the industry to become amazing after the patent runs out? At best, you'll get lazy answers like ALL of E Ink's patents.

ZeroGravitas 6y ago
That's not a lazy answer, "patent thickets" are a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_thicket https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_thicket
- robinsoh 6y ago
  It is when it is not applicable to the topic being discussed.
monocasa 6y ago
People said the same thing about 3d printing, and as soon as the FDM patents expired in 2009 the field exploded.
- robinsoh 6y ago
  Isn't that a Trumpism? "People said". I noticed nobody answered the simple question of which patent is blocking progress.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    Not everything Trump might have said is a "Trumpism". As for the statement "people said", it's absolutely fair to point out that your argument has been incorrectly stated in the past in very similar circumstances. And you can look up e-ink's dozen or so patents that still have about half of their lifetime left. They're pretty fundamental to the technology. I personally try not to patent bomb here on HN so I don't push someone into willful infringement.
    - robinsoh 6y ago
      I don't see a concrete answer to the simple question of which patent it is that is blocking the industry. Is that question somehow illegitimate?

numpad0 6y ago

There’s a perfect alternative to E Ink for laptops called Liquid Crystal Display(LCD)

FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
Good point, it has many of the same advantages: low power, sunlight readability. Why isn't it used more often? The OLPC had a dual LCD/LED display (PixelQi) and it worked very well.
- AlanYx 6y ago
  RLCD is starting to pick up in some niches in China (e.g., the Hisense Q5). Its main disadvantage is that it tends to have a color cast depending on the nature of the ambient light, which e-ink doesn't, but it is cheaper and has higher refresh rates.
  - FlyMoreRockets 6y ago
    Glad to hear RLCD is finding a niche between e-ink and other displays, thanks for the recommendation.