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Wasn't the code for XP leaked a while ago? Could the ReactOS developers learn how things work from it?

by jmkni 6y ago

scoopertrooper 6y ago
Quite the opposite, any developer that so much as glances at the leaked source code is banned from the project. The legality of ReactOS rests upon its developers reverse engineering Windows without having access to the source code.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  As far as I'm aware you can however look at the leaked source code and use those insights to fix or write documentation about the behavior of the APIs and general behavior. You just can't write any ReactOS code yourself because you are tained once you've seen the leak. But I think the overlap between people who can extract insights from the leaked code and people who enjoy writing documentation in their free time (more than reverse engineering and programming) is pretty small.
  - dspillett 6y ago
    > As far as I'm aware you can however look at the leaked source code and use those insights to fix You can, but if your solution is at all like theirs the onus will be on you (what-ever legal team you can afford against their 800lb gorilla) to prove that you didn't copy it. It is far safer not to look at all, and IIRC ReactOS's developer guidelines prohibit their devs from doing so for the avoidance of doubt. > or write documentation about the behavior of the APIs and general behavior. What Compaq did to implement the behaviour of IBM's BIOS (the only part of the original PC that wasn't off-the-shelf) was to double-clean-room. Two completely separate teams were on the job: in one "clean room" they analysed the chip's behaviour in detail and documented everything significant, and in the other a team implemented a design that mimicked said behaviour. I doubt the ReactOS team have the resources to properly pull this off for something as large as the Windows source code though, and even if they did that still wouldn't get close to their target of Win2003 & later compatibility (there have been some significant changes to parts of the driver model since the XP days).
theonemind 6y ago
I forget the details, but generally, no. They want a clean room implementation, so if you've seen the code, you might even unconsciously copy it. They've taken license matters very seriously, so ReactOS devs would probably actively avoid looking at the code for the legal safety of the project.
1f60c 6y ago
Maybe they could do something like Drew DeVault did with their TrueCraft project: https://github.com/ddevault/TrueCraft#get-involved https://github.com/ddevault/TrueCraft#get-involved
pizza234 6y ago
If you're asking if they are formally allowed to do it, the answer is definitely no. If though, you're asking if they "can" in very generic terms, yes, certainly - as a matter of fact, this has been a large controversy of ReactOS. There are no certainties, as everybody has their own side of the story. An MS developer, Axel Rietschin, publicly expressed his opinion that there are wholesale ripped off (low-level) functionalities¹; I personally find it convincing, although it's fuzzy, as he doesn't give details. ¹=https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20341933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20341933
- MikusR 6y ago
  This talk was posted in that thread https://youtu.be/2D9ExVc0G10 https://youtu.be/2D9ExVc0G10

Wasn't the code for XP leaked a while ago? Could the ReactOS developers learn how things work from it?

by jmkni 6y ago

Wasn't the code for XP leaked a while ago? Could the ReactOS developers learn how things work from it?

Quite the opposite, any developer that so much as glances at the leaked source code is banned from the project. The legality of ReactOS rests upon its developers reverse engineering Windows without having access to the source code.

wongarsu 6y ago
As far as I'm aware you can however look at the leaked source code and use those insights to fix or write documentation about the behavior of the APIs and general behavior. You just can't write any ReactOS code yourself because you are tained once you've seen the leak. But I think the overlap between people who can extract insights from the leaked code and people who enjoy writing documentation in their free time (more than reverse engineering and programming) is pretty small.
- dspillett 6y ago
  > As far as I'm aware you can however look at the leaked source code and use those insights to fix You can, but if your solution is at all like theirs the onus will be on you (what-ever legal team you can afford against their 800lb gorilla) to prove that you didn't copy it. It is far safer not to look at all, and IIRC ReactOS's developer guidelines prohibit their devs from doing so for the avoidance of doubt. > or write documentation about the behavior of the APIs and general behavior. What Compaq did to implement the behaviour of IBM's BIOS (the only part of the original PC that wasn't off-the-shelf) was to double-clean-room. Two completely separate teams were on the job: in one "clean room" they analysed the chip's behaviour in detail and documented everything significant, and in the other a team implemented a design that mimicked said behaviour. I doubt the ReactOS team have the resources to properly pull this off for something as large as the Windows source code though, and even if they did that still wouldn't get close to their target of Win2003 & later compatibility (there have been some significant changes to parts of the driver model since the XP days).

theonemind 6y ago

I forget the details, but generally, no. They want a clean room implementation, so if you've seen the code, you might even unconsciously copy it. They've taken license matters very seriously, so ReactOS devs would probably actively avoid looking at the code for the legal safety of the project.

1f60c 6y ago

Maybe they could do something like Drew DeVault did with their TrueCraft project: https://github.com/ddevault/TrueCraft#get-involved https://github.com/ddevault/TrueCraft#get-involved

pizza234 6y ago

If you're asking if they are formally allowed to do it, the answer is definitely no. If though, you're asking if they "can" in very generic terms, yes, certainly - as a matter of fact, this has been a large controversy of ReactOS. There are no certainties, as everybody has their own side of the story. An MS developer, Axel Rietschin, publicly expressed his opinion that there are wholesale ripped off (low-level) functionalities¹; I personally find it convincing, although it's fuzzy, as he doesn't give details. ¹=https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20341933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20341933

MikusR 6y ago
This talk was posted in that thread https://youtu.be/2D9ExVc0G10 https://youtu.be/2D9ExVc0G10