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> rather than resolving the issue productively Unfortunately it's not possible to productively resolve issues with the Signal team, something you can find docu

> rather than resolving the issue productively Unfortunately it's not possible to productively resolve issues with the Signal team, something you can find documented again and again. (My own experience: I had to justify the the user impact of 30+sec freezes on every sent message, confirmed by multiple people. Bug was closed wontfix.) This is a known thing with Moxie and the culture he's created at Signal and it's unfortunate that he's still starting drama with everyone instead of doing any self-reflection.

phreack 6y ago
But even then, there's really no point in trolling the PR section of Github besides griefing. Just fork the thing and make a better Signal if you believe so harshly that there's no hope with Moxie at the helm.
- julianmarq 6y ago
  Even if one thought that this would help the people that need help on this matter, you can't really fork signal as it is today, I think. Or at least whatever it is that signal is using on its servers because that is very unlikely to be the software in its public repo, which hasn't been updated in almost a year. And even for a while before then, most of the commits were version bumps with no visible changes on the code. If anything, that's another problem with signal that's not getting enough attention (that I've seen): It claims to be open source, but as of now, it doesn't seem to be. At least not in the servers.
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    Not only that, but Signal has indicated that third-party clients are not welcome to use their servers. So even if you contented yourself with forking the client, you can't use it. https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
- La1n 6y ago
  Just fork it isn't useful if they believe this is putting people in danger right now.
DavidSJ 6y ago
FWIW, my experience with Signal sadly confirms this. There’s a critical issue for years with the iOS app that there’s no way to backup or otherwise extract your chat logs (contrary to the usual behavior of iOS apps which automatically backup to your computer or iCloud), no warning of this when you first install, and almost no communication from developers on the subject for years despite huge numbers of complaints. They hide behind the shield of being volunteers to justify not addressing or communicating about any user concerns, but they also want to play in the big leagues and have hundreds of millions of users who would otherwise be using other chat platforms.
- proactivesvcs 6y ago
  > They hide behind the shield of being volunteers to justify not addressing or communicating about any user concerns I agree this lacking feature is an important matter, but the Signal team have explained why the iOS app doesn't have a backup facility. Saying there's "no communication" is not true. I'm not sure what the purpose of saying "hiding behind the shield of being volunteers" is. Are you inferring they're lying and that they simply don't care? Perhaps that they're raking in their paycheck whilst leaving the volunteers to martyr themselves against complaining users? Neither are helpful accusations.
  - DavidSJ 6y ago
    Not no communication. Almost no communication. They have occasionally given explanations for why the feature is difficult to implement, and occasionally given explanations for why they think the feature shouldn’t exist at all even if it could be implemented (despite it existing for Android users). They have never clearly communicated what their intent is: Will they implement it? If so, when? And they have never clearly warned users of this sharp edge in advance of installing software which will hurt them if they care about not losing control over their own data. By “hiding behind the shield of being volunteers”, I’m not implying anything about them lying about anything. I’m saying that they have explicitly, on multiple occasions, indicated that it’s bad form for users to feel entitled to certain dealbreaker issues being fixed, or even to feel entitled to communication about whether those issues will be fixed and on what schedule. And their reason for believing users are not entitled to anything from them is that they are just volunteers.
catkitcourt 6y ago
As they've claimed, this is a security vulnerability, instead of a software bug. If they really think this is a vulnerability, send to Signal's email: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007320791-How-can-I-report-a-security-vulnerability- https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007320791-Ho...

phreack 6y ago

But even then, there's really no point in trolling the PR section of Github besides griefing. Just fork the thing and make a better Signal if you believe so harshly that there's no hope with Moxie at the helm.

julianmarq 6y ago
Even if one thought that this would help the people that need help on this matter, you can't really fork signal as it is today, I think. Or at least whatever it is that signal is using on its servers because that is very unlikely to be the software in its public repo, which hasn't been updated in almost a year. And even for a while before then, most of the commits were version bumps with no visible changes on the code. If anything, that's another problem with signal that's not getting enough attention (that I've seen): It claims to be open source, but as of now, it doesn't seem to be. At least not in the servers.
- duskwuff 6y ago
  Not only that, but Signal has indicated that third-party clients are not welcome to use their servers. So even if you contented yourself with forking the client, you can't use it. https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
La1n 6y ago
Just fork it isn't useful if they believe this is putting people in danger right now.

DavidSJ 6y ago

FWIW, my experience with Signal sadly confirms this. There’s a critical issue for years with the iOS app that there’s no way to backup or otherwise extract your chat logs (contrary to the usual behavior of iOS apps which automatically backup to your computer or iCloud), no warning of this when you first install, and almost no communication from developers on the subject for years despite huge numbers of complaints. They hide behind the shield of being volunteers to justify not addressing or communicating about any user concerns, but they also want to play in the big leagues and have hundreds of millions of users who would otherwise be using other chat platforms.

proactivesvcs 6y ago
> They hide behind the shield of being volunteers to justify not addressing or communicating about any user concerns I agree this lacking feature is an important matter, but the Signal team have explained why the iOS app doesn't have a backup facility. Saying there's "no communication" is not true. I'm not sure what the purpose of saying "hiding behind the shield of being volunteers" is. Are you inferring they're lying and that they simply don't care? Perhaps that they're raking in their paycheck whilst leaving the volunteers to martyr themselves against complaining users? Neither are helpful accusations.
- DavidSJ 6y ago
  Not no communication. Almost no communication. They have occasionally given explanations for why the feature is difficult to implement, and occasionally given explanations for why they think the feature shouldn’t exist at all even if it could be implemented (despite it existing for Android users). They have never clearly communicated what their intent is: Will they implement it? If so, when? And they have never clearly warned users of this sharp edge in advance of installing software which will hurt them if they care about not losing control over their own data. By “hiding behind the shield of being volunteers”, I’m not implying anything about them lying about anything. I’m saying that they have explicitly, on multiple occasions, indicated that it’s bad form for users to feel entitled to certain dealbreaker issues being fixed, or even to feel entitled to communication about whether those issues will be fixed and on what schedule. And their reason for believing users are not entitled to anything from them is that they are just volunteers.

catkitcourt 6y ago

As they've claimed, this is a security vulnerability, instead of a software bug. If they really think this is a vulnerability, send to Signal's email: https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007320791-How-can-I-report-a-security-vulnerability- https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360007320791-Ho...