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Well since there's a plural in "CLIs", that goes into the "wrangling" category for me. If the dev/dep process involves more than one bespoke tool (looking at yo

by zdkl 6y ago

Well since there's a plural in "CLIs", that goes into the "wrangling" category for me. If the dev/dep process involves more than one bespoke tool (looking at you js/Node monstrosities) and learning the arcana of their interactions, I'm out.

j-krieger 6y ago
Well, I guess you‘re out of programming as a whole then, no? Most languages and dev process involve a lot of configuration or „bespoke tools“ and learning the arcane of their interactions. Java? Gradle. JUnit. Maven. JavaDoc. etc. C/CPP? Make. CMake. Various dependency management tools. Maybe your OS native dependency manager Your OS? Brew / Yay / pacman / app-get / vim config / IDE configuration / environment tools / ... Deployment? Docker. Jenkins. Travis. Kubernetes. Coming back to „js monstrosities“, if you ever had the fun to poke around in the literal arcane magicks that are C++ dependency management systems and giant CMAKE files, you‘d love node. In fact, most cli tools are just for templating projects or generating boilerplate for components. They aren‘t arcane or complicated at all. Configuration is half of programming or dev ops. If you don‘t like it, maybe it just isn‘t for you.
- zdkl 6y ago
  I understand what you mean but disagree. I merely appreciate tools that make some effort to standardise their UX. Of course configuration is going to be a major part of the system; however that doesn't mean I must use fragmented tools to manage them. For instance, I avoid touching those Java tools you mention (or Javascript), preferring leiningen et al. from the Clojure ecosystem. If I don't want to deal with CMAKE or whatever the hell php or perl or erlang or go use, I can use my distro's package manager (coincidentally, yay) to abstract them away. If something goes wrong (which rarely happens these days!) it's even money that the problem comes from some Node/JS intermediate abomination which doesn't even show you the curtesy of being tractable in its scope or mode of operation. And your last line is uncalled for. I'm happy you like the current state of affairs, but my very subjective view is that I'm not affected by the JS-land Stockholm syndrome. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy dealing with the domain problems :)

by zdkl 6y ago

j-krieger 6y ago

Well, I guess you‘re out of programming as a whole then, no? Most languages and dev process involve a lot of configuration or „bespoke tools“ and learning the arcane of their interactions. Java? Gradle. JUnit. Maven. JavaDoc. etc. C/CPP? Make. CMake. Various dependency management tools. Maybe your OS native dependency manager Your OS? Brew / Yay / pacman / app-get / vim config / IDE configuration / environment tools / ... Deployment? Docker. Jenkins. Travis. Kubernetes. Coming back to „js monstrosities“, if you ever had the fun to poke around in the literal arcane magicks that are C++ dependency management systems and giant CMAKE files, you‘d love node. In fact, most cli tools are just for templating projects or generating boilerplate for components. They aren‘t arcane or complicated at all. Configuration is half of programming or dev ops. If you don‘t like it, maybe it just isn‘t for you.

zdkl 6y ago
I understand what you mean but disagree. I merely appreciate tools that make some effort to standardise their UX. Of course configuration is going to be a major part of the system; however that doesn't mean I must use fragmented tools to manage them. For instance, I avoid touching those Java tools you mention (or Javascript), preferring leiningen et al. from the Clojure ecosystem. If I don't want to deal with CMAKE or whatever the hell php or perl or erlang or go use, I can use my distro's package manager (coincidentally, yay) to abstract them away. If something goes wrong (which rarely happens these days!) it's even money that the problem comes from some Node/JS intermediate abomination which doesn't even show you the curtesy of being tractable in its scope or mode of operation. And your last line is uncalled for. I'm happy you like the current state of affairs, but my very subjective view is that I'm not affected by the JS-land Stockholm syndrome. Doesn't mean I don't enjoy dealing with the domain problems :)