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I don’t know if this is even an option for you but you might want to take a look at Angular especially if you already have an OO language background on the back

by mhoad 6y ago

I don’t know if this is even an option for you but you might want to take a look at Angular especially if you already have an OO language background on the backend. Basically everything is standardised, you are mostly just writing classes the way you would for a desktop application, the majority of what makes the web frustrating to work with is abstracted away in a series of sensible patterns and overall the tooling is really great.

durnygbur 6y ago
> take a look at Angular especially if you already have an OO language background on the backend. Observables, pipes, operators, litany of custom attributes in the markup, the TS source code looks like Java. I'm literally starring now the 4th day at bunch of TS and HTML files only to duplicate a simple UI feature. Once done, writing tests for this mess. All this to create a web app which loads 5-10 seconds with 2 levels of loading spinners. I feel sorry for anyone whose job will be using the application. I actively procrastinate to delay touching it.
- mhoad 6y ago
  I mentioned this more in my other commend on this thread but I should mention that I think the bar for when people reach for an SPA framework like Angular is probably a lot lower than is reasonable. Angular in particular is designed for enterprise style applications and that is about it. Everything you need for that doesn’t come for free in terms of complexity obviously. The other thing I mentioned elsewhere at the total other end of the spectrum was Hotwire. That is genuinely as close to 2006 web development as I can think of in terms of simplicity and is probably enough for the majority of applications up to and including an email client in the browser which is what they originally built it for.
atraac 6y ago
I did work with Angular a bit. It is admittedly better in my opinion in that context - it gives you kind of guard rails. But then an actual Angular developer came into the project and threw everything around to the point I wasn't recognizing the project anymore. I have to admit he was insanely productive with it as he actually had years of experience just in Angular. I have to admit, I mostly make 'backend uis' recently and for me Blazor(server for now) fills that niche insanely well, I've never been so productive when doing frontend work, it has its pitfalls as well, our code is probably not the cleanest, but the fact that I can include a project with all my models, services and just use that, makes it so satisfying to work with... I only ever had one similar feeling so far, when trying Phoenix.

by mhoad 6y ago

durnygbur 6y ago

> take a look at Angular especially if you already have an OO language background on the backend. Observables, pipes, operators, litany of custom attributes in the markup, the TS source code looks like Java. I'm literally starring now the 4th day at bunch of TS and HTML files only to duplicate a simple UI feature. Once done, writing tests for this mess. All this to create a web app which loads 5-10 seconds with 2 levels of loading spinners. I feel sorry for anyone whose job will be using the application. I actively procrastinate to delay touching it.

mhoad 6y ago
I mentioned this more in my other commend on this thread but I should mention that I think the bar for when people reach for an SPA framework like Angular is probably a lot lower than is reasonable. Angular in particular is designed for enterprise style applications and that is about it. Everything you need for that doesn’t come for free in terms of complexity obviously. The other thing I mentioned elsewhere at the total other end of the spectrum was Hotwire. That is genuinely as close to 2006 web development as I can think of in terms of simplicity and is probably enough for the majority of applications up to and including an email client in the browser which is what they originally built it for.

atraac 6y ago

I did work with Angular a bit. It is admittedly better in my opinion in that context - it gives you kind of guard rails. But then an actual Angular developer came into the project and threw everything around to the point I wasn't recognizing the project anymore. I have to admit he was insanely productive with it as he actually had years of experience just in Angular. I have to admit, I mostly make 'backend uis' recently and for me Blazor(server for now) fills that niche insanely well, I've never been so productive when doing frontend work, it has its pitfalls as well, our code is probably not the cleanest, but the fact that I can include a project with all my models, services and just use that, makes it so satisfying to work with... I only ever had one similar feeling so far, when trying Phoenix.