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no necessarily, assuming a galaxy wide expanding type II civilization that converts every star it encounters to a Dyson swarm as the tracked intelligent civiliz

no necessarily, assuming a galaxy wide expanding type II civilization that converts every star it encounters to a Dyson swarm as the tracked intelligent civilization. they will easily take a few 10s of Million years to colonize their galaxy. in this process we should be able to see such transformation 'in real-time' via changing radiation signature of the region. Fermi-paradox is paradox for a reason!

credit_guy 6y ago
> Fermi-paradox is paradox for a reason! The Fermi paradox is just a way to have fun at parties (or over the internet, especially on HN). There are so many possible solutions to the Fermi paradox. But each solution has questions, and answers, and more questions and more answers. That's why it's so fun. But it's not that deep. To the point, the Dyson swarm is virtually guaranteed to not be used by any advanced civilization. Once a civilization tames nuclear fusion (and we are on the brink of doing so), then harnessing the energy produced by the local star via a bunch of solar panels becomes just a clunky way of getting energy. Controlled nuclear fusion can be many, many orders of magnitude more productive and convenient compared to solar energy. A star is indeed a massive fusion reactor, but it's a very slow one. Our Sun in particular produces about as much energy per pounds as the heat produced by the fermentation of manure. ITER is projected to produce hundreds of millions of time more. And ITER is just the beginning. Sure, the Sun contains most of the matter in the solar system, but plenty exists in the planets. We could use hydrogen stripped from Jupiter to produce trillions of times more power than a Dyson swarm could produce, and we can have that in a portable form that we could take with us in interstellar travels. Bottom line, whoever is looking to find Dyson spheres out there in the sky, is simply wasting time.
- hntrader 6y ago
  Since controlled fusion isn't mutually exclusive to using Dyson Spheres, why not use both? It seems that constructing Dyson Spheres can only add to the amount of energy that an advanced civilisation is capable of harnessing even if they're also using controlled fusion, so it wouldn't be surprising if they used those unless their energy needs were totally satiated by controlled fusion (or some as yet undiscovered alternative source)
- blueblisters 6y ago
  I think nuclear fusion may not be a very efficient method of converting mass to energy for very advanced civilizations. In absence of discovery of large amounts of antimatter, a super-advanced civilization is likely better off taming small black holes that can convert matter into heat. It doubles as a waste disposal mechanism as well.
- DesiLurker 6y ago
  its been a few days so doubt you'll read this but, even if you have really advanced fusion tech what people often overlook is that ultimately the civilizations are just heat engines. They would still have a heat signature & as you described that would be orders of magnitude more that their respective stars. you could literally track the growth of a type-II civilization by the radiation signature as long as they are emitting anything above CMB. Also, yes you dont have to look for Dyson spheres but you'll agree that Sun has 99.9% of the mass of solar system so it would make sense to turn to it after you have 'used up' Jupiter. And yes you can extract mass out of a Star with currently know physics, its just big project. THAT should be visible from far away. ultimately I doubt there is any stealth for cloaking a type-II civ so whats the best bet? you go the other way & expand as fast as possible. But either way we would have noticed .. at least close to our galactic cluster.

credit_guy 6y ago

> Fermi-paradox is paradox for a reason! The Fermi paradox is just a way to have fun at parties (or over the internet, especially on HN). There are so many possible solutions to the Fermi paradox. But each solution has questions, and answers, and more questions and more answers. That's why it's so fun. But it's not that deep. To the point, the Dyson swarm is virtually guaranteed to not be used by any advanced civilization. Once a civilization tames nuclear fusion (and we are on the brink of doing so), then harnessing the energy produced by the local star via a bunch of solar panels becomes just a clunky way of getting energy. Controlled nuclear fusion can be many, many orders of magnitude more productive and convenient compared to solar energy. A star is indeed a massive fusion reactor, but it's a very slow one. Our Sun in particular produces about as much energy per pounds as the heat produced by the fermentation of manure. ITER is projected to produce hundreds of millions of time more. And ITER is just the beginning. Sure, the Sun contains most of the matter in the solar system, but plenty exists in the planets. We could use hydrogen stripped from Jupiter to produce trillions of times more power than a Dyson swarm could produce, and we can have that in a portable form that we could take with us in interstellar travels. Bottom line, whoever is looking to find Dyson spheres out there in the sky, is simply wasting time.

hntrader 6y ago
Since controlled fusion isn't mutually exclusive to using Dyson Spheres, why not use both? It seems that constructing Dyson Spheres can only add to the amount of energy that an advanced civilisation is capable of harnessing even if they're also using controlled fusion, so it wouldn't be surprising if they used those unless their energy needs were totally satiated by controlled fusion (or some as yet undiscovered alternative source)
blueblisters 6y ago
I think nuclear fusion may not be a very efficient method of converting mass to energy for very advanced civilizations. In absence of discovery of large amounts of antimatter, a super-advanced civilization is likely better off taming small black holes that can convert matter into heat. It doubles as a waste disposal mechanism as well.
DesiLurker 6y ago
its been a few days so doubt you'll read this but, even if you have really advanced fusion tech what people often overlook is that ultimately the civilizations are just heat engines. They would still have a heat signature & as you described that would be orders of magnitude more that their respective stars. you could literally track the growth of a type-II civilization by the radiation signature as long as they are emitting anything above CMB. Also, yes you dont have to look for Dyson spheres but you'll agree that Sun has 99.9% of the mass of solar system so it would make sense to turn to it after you have 'used up' Jupiter. And yes you can extract mass out of a Star with currently know physics, its just big project. THAT should be visible from far away. ultimately I doubt there is any stealth for cloaking a type-II civ so whats the best bet? you go the other way & expand as fast as possible. But either way we would have noticed .. at least close to our galactic cluster.