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> Again, who cares, as long as both parties consent and nobody gets hurts? The problem is that there are some people who honestly believe that homosexuality is

by KMag 6y ago

> Again, who cares, as long as both parties consent and nobody gets hurts? The problem is that there are some people who honestly believe that homosexuality is self-harm and/or harms society. If everyone believed nobody was getting hurt, then it would be a much easier conflict to resolve. Certainly there's a lot of plain bigotry in these arguments, but, for instance, I have a friend who was really torn up about attending her brother's gay wedding. She's respectful of her brother's husband and loves her brother deeply, but is honestly concerned about non-provable harm to her brother's eternal soul. She's probably in the minority of those who oppose gay marriage, but as far as I can tell, it comes from a place of pure compassion. Also, getting back to polygamy, what's your specific objection? That true informed consent is difficult to ascertain? In 50 years, will we be looking back on this as duo-sexual bigotry? I agree that we shouldn't be discriminating against homosexuals, but it's surprisingly difficult to translate that gut feeling into robust reasoning from widely agreed first principles.

kergonath 6y ago
> The problem is that there are some people who honestly believe that homosexuality is self-harm and/or harms society. If everyone believed nobody was getting hurt, then it would be a much easier conflict to resolve. Right, but that’s a problem. Particularly when the same people are up in arms any time they perceive a threat to their freedom of religion, without realising that they impinge on others’. > Certainly there's a lot of plain bigotry in these arguments, but, for instance, I have a friend who was really torn up about attending her brother's gay wedding. She's respectful of her brother's husband and loves her brother deeply, but is honestly concerned about non-provable harm to her brother's eternal soul. She's probably in the minority of those who oppose gay marriage, but as far as I can tell, it comes from a place of pure compassion. This is terrible, though I understand where she’s coming from. I hope she will find the strength to put some of her beliefs aside and accept her brother for what he is. Life is too short to fight about that. > Also, getting back to polygamy, what's your specific objection? That true informed consent is difficult to ascertain? In 50 years, will we be looking back on this as duo-sexual bigotry? That is one of my problems, yes. I have accepted that I might not be popular and that people in the future might look down on us as repulsive barbarians. You can’t please everyone, and I won’t pretend that I have no prejudice. > I agree that we shouldn't be discriminating against homosexuals, but it's surprisingly difficult to translate that gut feeling into robust reasoning from widely agreed first principles. The core principle is freedom, tolerance and human rights (which are itself not too far from classical Christian values). Everything comes from there. You don’t want other people imposing you their moral principles? Don’t do it to others. You want the freedom to have your religion? Accept that other people will follow another one, or none at all. Most people just want to live in peace without being persecuted or discriminated against. Even the Catholic Church got the message after centuries of religious wars.

by KMag 6y ago

kergonath 6y ago

> The problem is that there are some people who honestly believe that homosexuality is self-harm and/or harms society. If everyone believed nobody was getting hurt, then it would be a much easier conflict to resolve. Right, but that’s a problem. Particularly when the same people are up in arms any time they perceive a threat to their freedom of religion, without realising that they impinge on others’. > Certainly there's a lot of plain bigotry in these arguments, but, for instance, I have a friend who was really torn up about attending her brother's gay wedding. She's respectful of her brother's husband and loves her brother deeply, but is honestly concerned about non-provable harm to her brother's eternal soul. She's probably in the minority of those who oppose gay marriage, but as far as I can tell, it comes from a place of pure compassion. This is terrible, though I understand where she’s coming from. I hope she will find the strength to put some of her beliefs aside and accept her brother for what he is. Life is too short to fight about that. > Also, getting back to polygamy, what's your specific objection? That true informed consent is difficult to ascertain? In 50 years, will we be looking back on this as duo-sexual bigotry? That is one of my problems, yes. I have accepted that I might not be popular and that people in the future might look down on us as repulsive barbarians. You can’t please everyone, and I won’t pretend that I have no prejudice. > I agree that we shouldn't be discriminating against homosexuals, but it's surprisingly difficult to translate that gut feeling into robust reasoning from widely agreed first principles. The core principle is freedom, tolerance and human rights (which are itself not too far from classical Christian values). Everything comes from there. You don’t want other people imposing you their moral principles? Don’t do it to others. You want the freedom to have your religion? Accept that other people will follow another one, or none at all. Most people just want to live in peace without being persecuted or discriminated against. Even the Catholic Church got the message after centuries of religious wars.