4 ms·

Even once isn't enough, or we learn the wrong lesson. Ask Flint, MI how well we've done fixing that catastrophic event.

WillPostForFood 6y ago
For Americans who stopped following the Flint water crisis after its first few gritty chapters, it might come as a surprise how far the city has come: Today, after nearly $400 million in state and federal spending, Flint has secured a clean water source, distributed filters to all residents who want them, and laid modern, safe copper pipes to nearly every home in the city that needed them. Its water is as good as any city’s in Michigan. Sounds like they did a great job fixing it. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-wate...
- psadauskas 6y ago
  Only took, what, 6 years? And still nobody has been held accountable?
  - mc32 6y ago
    Currently the case is ongoing and up to 9 face charges: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/14/956924155/ex-michigan-gov-rick-snyder-and-8-others-criminally-charged-in-flint-water-crisi https://www.npr.org/2021/01/14/956924155/ex-michigan-gov-ric...
  - dave5104 6y ago
    6 years does feel too long, but it does seem like a case is still making its way through the courts. The former governor (and other officials) just had charges against them announced a few weeks ago: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/14/us/michigan-flint-water-former-governor-charges-thursday/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/14/us/michigan-flint-water-forme...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - HDMI_Cable 6y ago
    To be fair, public works projects (especially replacing pipes and water treatment facilities) takes a long time.
  - hanniabu 6y ago
    Also other cities won't upgrade their infrastructure until they have an equally public event, at which point it'd be too late.
  - fredgrott 6y ago
    former governor goes to trial this year
  - throwaway0a5e 6y ago
    The government drags it's feet as much as possible when it comes to holding the government accountable. I think it's surprising it's even going to trial.
  - WillPostForFood 6y ago
    Are you moving the goalposts here? You seemed to be bemoaning that things don’t get fixed after a single crisis (n=1), not that fixes are good but move slowly. Flint got fixed.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  A “great job fixing it” is an exceedingly generous characterization. And the link you’ve provided makes it clear the issue hasn’t been “fixed” just by replacing the pipes. The people of Flint don’t trust their drinking water. (With good reason!) As long as these (predominantly low-income) people feel the need to spend money on bottled drinking the water the issue isn’t fixed just because a lab has determined the water is safe to drink again.
  - throwawayboise 6y ago
    So with the weight of contrary scientific evidence, the people still don't believe the water is safe? This sounds like the same arguments about climate change and election fraud that get dismissed out of hand.
    - hanniabu 6y ago
      That's not at all equivalent. The issue is they were lead (heh) to believe the water was safe before. So when you're told the water is safe, but then it isn't why would you believe them next time?
    - jancsika 6y ago
      > So with the weight of contrary scientific evidence, the people still don't believe the water is safe? That is what a reasonable human would expect "the people" to do when multiple agencies overseeing the utilities were initially so irresponsible/incompetent/negligent that water superheroes from three states over had to swoop in to warn residents their fucking pipes are poisoned[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Virginia_Tech_water_study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Virginia_Te... Edit: clarification
- pvaldes 6y ago
  safe -copper- pipes? LOL, copper is poisonous in presence of corrosives. They are just replacing a poison with other.
  - SigmundA 6y ago
    Not even in the same ballpark. Humans actually need trace amounts of copper. Regulations for safe copper levels are almost 100 times that of lead. All pipe materials are poison if enough is ingested, lead is however is toxic in extremely low amounts, while copper is actually needed in low amounts. You think PVC is better?
    - pvaldes 6y ago
      Lead is the worst by a mile, but If you expect to have water in the very low or very high PH rank, or water with a lot of chemical activity or too hot, copper is not totally safe either. We, mammals, are relatively well protected to deal with it, but the real problem here is in the long term exposure. Can produce several forms of inner bleeding in the gut, and harm permanently the liver and kidneys. There is a lot of copper messing around for some reason in Alzheimer's patients also. Moreover copper is particularly toxic for all aquatic life and invertebrates also causing an acute poisoning. I would not use that water in an aquarium for example. I had seen the stuff in action and is devastating for fishes.
      - genewitch 6y ago
        Fish tanks require copper to maintain proper levels of nitrifying bacteria, the first two nitrifying stages require copper to convert stuff to the "safe" nitrogen that requires flushing to remove (unless you have real plants in the aquarium, then you rarely need water changes) - furthermore, copper is used to cure several fish diseases[0], so it it's impossible to be as bad as you claim. [0]https://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-100ml/dp/B00025K0QC/ https://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-1... for example
        pvaldes 6y ago

For Americans who stopped following the Flint water crisis after its first few gritty chapters, it might come as a surprise how far the city has come: Today, after nearly $400 million in state and federal spending, Flint has secured a clean water source, distributed filters to all residents who want them, and laid modern, safe copper pipes to nearly every home in the city that needed them. Its water is as good as any city’s in Michigan. Sounds like they did a great job fixing it. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-water-crisis-2020-post-coronavirus-america-445459 https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/12/23/flint-wate...

psadauskas 6y ago
Only took, what, 6 years? And still nobody has been held accountable?
- mc32 6y ago
  Currently the case is ongoing and up to 9 face charges: https://www.npr.org/2021/01/14/956924155/ex-michigan-gov-rick-snyder-and-8-others-criminally-charged-in-flint-water-crisi https://www.npr.org/2021/01/14/956924155/ex-michigan-gov-ric...
- dave5104 6y ago
  6 years does feel too long, but it does seem like a case is still making its way through the courts. The former governor (and other officials) just had charges against them announced a few weeks ago: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/14/us/michigan-flint-water-former-governor-charges-thursday/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/14/us/michigan-flint-water-forme...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- HDMI_Cable 6y ago
  To be fair, public works projects (especially replacing pipes and water treatment facilities) takes a long time.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Also other cities won't upgrade their infrastructure until they have an equally public event, at which point it'd be too late.
- fredgrott 6y ago
  former governor goes to trial this year
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  The government drags it's feet as much as possible when it comes to holding the government accountable. I think it's surprising it's even going to trial.
- WillPostForFood 6y ago
  Are you moving the goalposts here? You seemed to be bemoaning that things don’t get fixed after a single crisis (n=1), not that fixes are good but move slowly. Flint got fixed.
elliekelly 6y ago
A “great job fixing it” is an exceedingly generous characterization. And the link you’ve provided makes it clear the issue hasn’t been “fixed” just by replacing the pipes. The people of Flint don’t trust their drinking water. (With good reason!) As long as these (predominantly low-income) people feel the need to spend money on bottled drinking the water the issue isn’t fixed just because a lab has determined the water is safe to drink again.
- throwawayboise 6y ago
  So with the weight of contrary scientific evidence, the people still don't believe the water is safe? This sounds like the same arguments about climate change and election fraud that get dismissed out of hand.
  - hanniabu 6y ago
    That's not at all equivalent. The issue is they were lead (heh) to believe the water was safe before. So when you're told the water is safe, but then it isn't why would you believe them next time?
  - jancsika 6y ago
    > So with the weight of contrary scientific evidence, the people still don't believe the water is safe? That is what a reasonable human would expect "the people" to do when multiple agencies overseeing the utilities were initially so irresponsible/incompetent/negligent that water superheroes from three states over had to swoop in to warn residents their fucking pipes are poisoned[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Virginia_Tech_water_study https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis#Virginia_Te... Edit: clarification
pvaldes 6y ago
safe -copper- pipes? LOL, copper is poisonous in presence of corrosives. They are just replacing a poison with other.
- SigmundA 6y ago
  Not even in the same ballpark. Humans actually need trace amounts of copper. Regulations for safe copper levels are almost 100 times that of lead. All pipe materials are poison if enough is ingested, lead is however is toxic in extremely low amounts, while copper is actually needed in low amounts. You think PVC is better?
  - pvaldes 6y ago
    Lead is the worst by a mile, but If you expect to have water in the very low or very high PH rank, or water with a lot of chemical activity or too hot, copper is not totally safe either. We, mammals, are relatively well protected to deal with it, but the real problem here is in the long term exposure. Can produce several forms of inner bleeding in the gut, and harm permanently the liver and kidneys. There is a lot of copper messing around for some reason in Alzheimer's patients also. Moreover copper is particularly toxic for all aquatic life and invertebrates also causing an acute poisoning. I would not use that water in an aquarium for example. I had seen the stuff in action and is devastating for fishes.
    - genewitch 6y ago
      Fish tanks require copper to maintain proper levels of nitrifying bacteria, the first two nitrifying stages require copper to convert stuff to the "safe" nitrogen that requires flushing to remove (unless you have real plants in the aquarium, then you rarely need water changes) - furthermore, copper is used to cure several fish diseases[0], so it it's impossible to be as bad as you claim. [0]https://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-100ml/dp/B00025K0QC/ https://smile.amazon.com/Seachem-67105650-Cupramine-Copper-1... for example
      - pvaldes 6y ago