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Some thoughts on the bigger picture- 1: Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? What if

by parsimo2010 6y ago

Some thoughts on the bigger picture- 1: Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? What if Marc literally said "r-word" and I'm vastly underestimating how woke this reporter is? Wait, I have a solution. Use the actual word that a person said when quoting them. Just write the exact sentence where you think Marc said the word retard. Nobody should prosecute you for quoting someone without endorsing their opinion. Obfuscating your reporting to avoid a word is bad writing style. 1.5: Otherwise, the above seems to limit us to 26 taboo slurs in the English language. A-word, b-word, c-word, ... There are other rude words, but there can only be a single r-word so bad that I mustn't spell it. To prevent confusion, I have to completely spell/say the rest of the r-words. What I'm getting at is whole thing of not saying a word is silly. Everyone knows that the c-word means cunt (at least in the USA). If this wasn't common knowledge then you couldn't say c-word and have everyone know what you meant. (Who decided that cunt was a worse word than chink anyway? That's marginalizing Chinese people and totally not-woke. /s) 2. There are people that exaggerate and sensationalize something to get more views. Some people are even fine trying to ruin someone's reputation. But we are getting wise to these sorts of things. If it's an isolated event these things kind of go away. Even if Marc is on record once saying "retard" he's probably not a bad guy. Just from growing up in the 90's I've easily said it a thousand times. If I start to hear several other instances accusing Marc of using a slur and saying it in a hurtful manner then I'll revisit the issue.

djrogers 6y ago
There's a minor problem with your 1st item above - the quote she was (mis)attributing to Marc was actually a quote from DFV on /r/wallstreetbets. If she had use the word in her quote of his quote, it would have damaged her narrative. The fact is that in her tweet and subsequent non-apology when corrected she went out of her way to paper over the context of this being a quote of DFV. She claimed the word was used 'casually' as if it was directed at someone or a group rather than quoting someone who was referring to himself...
mdoms 6y ago
Reminds me of a Louis CK bit where he says that when you say "n-word" you're not saying the n-word but you're making ME say it in my head.
- Craighead 6y ago
  Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.
throwaway802011 6y ago
> Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? By the standards of the New York Times, yes. They parted with a journalist in the past week for making this error with the n-word: > “We do not tolerate racist language regardless of intent," Baquet and Managing Editor Joseph Kahn wrote to staffers Friday. > [...] > [The Times] also shared a note from McNeil, who explained that he had repeated a racial slur in asking a question about the use of the slur. “I should not have done that. Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended. I now realize that it cannot. It is deeply offensive and hurtful. The fact that I even thought I could defend it itself showed extraordinarily bad judgement. For that I apologize.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/02/05/new-york-times-donald-mcneil-andy-mills-depart/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/02/05/new-york-tim... EDIT: formatting
- Udik 6y ago
  I find all this genuinely r-worded.
prepend 6y ago
I think “r-word” is a function of stupid text analysis that scans for offensive words. So the fear is that, at some point in the near future, I’ll end up on some stupid regex/nlp-generated list of bigots because it has 100,000 names of people who match the query. Then people freak out and say the equivalent of “look 95,000 people are terrible and the algorithm can’t be wrong” etc etc. This is the equivalent of juries and police trusting bad facial recognition code and making my life miserable. While it’s certainly lazy, it’s the path of least resistance to avoid the word. I believe that there are way more knee jerk, judging idiots than there are people who can code high positive predictive value bigot scanners.

djrogers 6y ago

There's a minor problem with your 1st item above - the quote she was (mis)attributing to Marc was actually a quote from DFV on /r/wallstreetbets. If she had use the word in her quote of his quote, it would have damaged her narrative. The fact is that in her tweet and subsequent non-apology when corrected she went out of her way to paper over the context of this being a quote of DFV. She claimed the word was used 'casually' as if it was directed at someone or a group rather than quoting someone who was referring to himself...

mdoms 6y ago

Reminds me of a Louis CK bit where he says that when you say "n-word" you're not saying the n-word but you're making ME say it in my head.

Craighead 6y ago
Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

throwaway802011 6y ago

> Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? By the standards of the New York Times, yes. They parted with a journalist in the past week for making this error with the n-word: > “We do not tolerate racist language regardless of intent," Baquet and Managing Editor Joseph Kahn wrote to staffers Friday. > [...] > [The Times] also shared a note from McNeil, who explained that he had repeated a racial slur in asking a question about the use of the slur. “I should not have done that. Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended. I now realize that it cannot. It is deeply offensive and hurtful. The fact that I even thought I could defend it itself showed extraordinarily bad judgement. For that I apologize.” https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/02/05/new-york-times-donald-mcneil-andy-mills-depart/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/02/05/new-york-tim... EDIT: formatting

Udik 6y ago
I find all this genuinely r-worded.

prepend 6y ago

I think “r-word” is a function of stupid text analysis that scans for offensive words. So the fear is that, at some point in the near future, I’ll end up on some stupid regex/nlp-generated list of bigots because it has 100,000 names of people who match the query. Then people freak out and say the equivalent of “look 95,000 people are terrible and the algorithm can’t be wrong” etc etc. This is the equivalent of juries and police trusting bad facial recognition code and making my life miserable. While it’s certainly lazy, it’s the path of least resistance to avoid the word. I believe that there are way more knee jerk, judging idiots than there are people who can code high positive predictive value bigot scanners.