6 ms·

I thought Tesla was a “green” company. Elon, this sucks

28 points by massinstall 6y ago

emteycz 6y ago
You know what sucks? Governments having control of money. Governments will suck you dry of your last cent if they have the slightest reason, regardless of your need to have a bed under a roof and having something to eat. Don't let governments control all money. Even if this was true, it's worth it. And I don't believe it's true. Are you telling me most Bitcoin miners are paying for mining Bitcoin? I really would like to meet these miners. If a miner wants to be profitable they must use waste electricity - any other electricity, industrial or not, is several multiples too expensive. And I think it's better if waste electricity is used for Bitcoin instead of being dumped. (I guess the downvoters never had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets?)
- tashoecraft 6y ago
  I assuming you then live in a country with near no government and it’s a paradise for you
  - emteycz 6y ago
    I said "don't let governments control all money", not "abolish governments", there is value in having governments, but it goes bad quickly if they control everything. Show me that country please.
- phaemon 6y ago
  I would guess that literally no-one else on HN has "had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets". I don't reckon it's as common as you think.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Visit a bar in a not-so-good part of your city (or some bigger city near you, if you live in a small one), it's way too common, just hidden to you. Even I was really surprised how many people are fucked over by the government, and I didn't have the best opinion of it before.
    - jayd16 6y ago
      Why do you think BTC means taxes, fees and levies would go away?
      - emteycz 6y ago
        I don't. I think BTC means my money won't turn over night without any notice into negative balance equivalent to median yearly wage. Nothing wrong about paying taxes and fees if there's enough money for the most basic necessities.
- exclusiv 6y ago
  > I guess the downvoters never had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets That's kind of how it works when you don't pay your tickets. However, I once had to go to court to show proof of insurance that I didn't have when I was pulled over. I watched as all these people showed up, pleaded no contest and the judge gave them like 50% off what they owed. You would think you would get a discount if you paid out of court, but no, you can force extra/busy work on the courts and you get to pay less. Being a pain in the ass can save you money. Speeding tickets, red light tickets - sure there can be innocents. But parking tickets - the ticketed are almost always guilty. Of all the things to complain about regarding the government, you probably picked the most legitimate of all in parking enforcement. I mean, I don't like all the rules and fines, but it's a pretty clear thing and a pretty clear fine & collection process. Everyone knows you can get your car booted too.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Sure, and I eventually paid up, that's alright. It's not alright to force me to sleep in a car and wash under a hose behind a gas station, and to look for change in coffee automats. I actually would've paid faster if I had money for my food and rent, as I would've been able to work normally.
    - exclusiv 6y ago
      Did you go to court? Or just not pay for a long time? You said "take all your money". Was that indirect due to the fine amount or are you saying they actively took it (like a garnishment)? Apart from the hack I mentioned, there are also options if you cannot afford. Example: in LA they have community service or payment plan options. [1] [1] https://ladot.lacity.org/projects/parking-in-la/pay-your-parking-citation https://ladot.lacity.org/projects/parking-in-la/pay-your-par...
      - emteycz 6y ago
        I am actually in the great social paradise of European Union. It's not as good here as the EU shills make it out to be, unfortunately; I'd love to be in the USA. My court was automatical and behind my back without any notice, and there wasn't anything I could do after they forced my bank account into negative balance equivalent to median yearly wage. Not sure what the US equivalent of this would be, this is how the EU deals with debts; they will go to whatever they label as your home and take the stuff there if the bank account is too empty, regardless of whose stuff is it - no real way to appeal after it's done. My bank account fortunately paid for half of the debt so they didn't immediately go steal stuff from my parents.
rzz3 6y ago
As if USD is green...
mjfl 6y ago
"Equivalent to the carbon footprint of 694,893 VISA transactions" That's actually way less than I thought. How much energy does the VISA network expend? Aren't their trillions of transactions per year?
- A12-B 6y ago
  It's less than you thought? What did you think it would be and why?
  - mjfl 6y ago
    Greater than the energy expenditure of all Visa transactions? This makes it seem more efficient than Visa
- estreeper 6y ago
  There may be a problem with the way this site is laid out because another thread thought the same thing, but this is the carbon footprint from a single BTC transaction.
rmetzler 6y ago
I really don't understand how any company creating batteries from lithium can be considered "green".
- etrautmann 6y ago
  Why is that? Is lithium worse in a relative sense than other battery chemistries, or fossil fuels?
  - rmetzler 6y ago
    I didn't compare Tesla to another car company, I just stated that I don't think this is "green".
    - DFHippie 6y ago
      But if you're going to buy a car you can rank your choices by how green they are. A Hummer is comparatively less green than most choices. A Tesla is comparatively more green, arguably. Regardless of whether you agree, that is one of their main selling points. I would think this is obvious and well known.
      - volta83 6y ago
        > A Tesla is comparatively more green, arguably. Arguably? The Teslas are "recycled" by shipping them to the middle east, which then "recycle" them by shipping them to pakistan, india, etc., which ten "recycle" them by dumping the lithium batteries into their rivers. I don't see how this is, by any measure of "greeness" greener than a Hummer, since first of all, a hummer can run in those countries for 100 years and is easy to repair (as opposed to "repairing" a lithium battery, which is essentially impossible), and second, even if you were to dump a Hummer into a river, that's not as horrible as just literally dumping lithium.
bryanlarsen 6y ago
Elon originally funded Tesla because he thought the world was going to run out of oil, not for environmental reasons.
- EForEndeavour 6y ago
  I'd consider the world's oil reserves to be part of the environment!
chemmail 6y ago
While i'm not some Elon maniac, I think these people need to stop eating, because that is more environmentally unfriendly.
- A12-B 6y ago
  i wonder what the difference between eating and using bitcoin could possibly be..
xiphias2 6y ago
The title doesn't match the article title...this sucks
- massinstall 6y ago
  Check today's news, Tesla bought $1.5bln in Bitcoin and will accept it as payment from its customers. Bitcoin fans will likely welcome this and laud it as a step forward. Many of them are not informed about the devastating environmental impact of blockchain-based technologies, sadly neither is Elon apparently. Some will simply not care even after having informed themselves. When the next generation begins to ask questions eventually how we could have let this happen, it will be a "big surprise" and we "couldn't have known". Again. The cycle continues...
  - xiphias2 6y ago
    There are rules on HN for a reason. The title is clickbaity. The author could have just reposted the article with a 2020 title, but chose to clickbait people.
endori97 6y ago
>>or 52,255 hours of watching Youtube 1 billion hours of YouTube are watched per day... so Bitcoin is ~20,000x greener than YouTube consumption?
- estreeper 6y ago
  The layout is a bit confusing, but that's the amount of energy used for a single transaction.

28 points by massinstall 6y ago

You know what sucks? Governments having control of money. Governments will suck you dry of your last cent if they have the slightest reason, regardless of your need to have a bed under a roof and having something to eat. Don't let governments control all money. Even if this was true, it's worth it. And I don't believe it's true. Are you telling me most Bitcoin miners are paying for mining Bitcoin? I really would like to meet these miners. If a miner wants to be profitable they must use waste electricity - any other electricity, industrial or not, is several multiples too expensive. And I think it's better if waste electricity is used for Bitcoin instead of being dumped. (I guess the downvoters never had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets?)

tashoecraft 6y ago
I assuming you then live in a country with near no government and it’s a paradise for you
- emteycz 6y ago
  I said "don't let governments control all money", not "abolish governments", there is value in having governments, but it goes bad quickly if they control everything. Show me that country please.
phaemon 6y ago
I would guess that literally no-one else on HN has "had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets". I don't reckon it's as common as you think.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Visit a bar in a not-so-good part of your city (or some bigger city near you, if you live in a small one), it's way too common, just hidden to you. Even I was really surprised how many people are fucked over by the government, and I didn't have the best opinion of it before.
  - jayd16 6y ago
    Why do you think BTC means taxes, fees and levies would go away?
    - emteycz 6y ago
      I don't. I think BTC means my money won't turn over night without any notice into negative balance equivalent to median yearly wage. Nothing wrong about paying taxes and fees if there's enough money for the most basic necessities.
exclusiv 6y ago
> I guess the downvoters never had a government take all their money because of unpaid parking tickets That's kind of how it works when you don't pay your tickets. However, I once had to go to court to show proof of insurance that I didn't have when I was pulled over. I watched as all these people showed up, pleaded no contest and the judge gave them like 50% off what they owed. You would think you would get a discount if you paid out of court, but no, you can force extra/busy work on the courts and you get to pay less. Being a pain in the ass can save you money. Speeding tickets, red light tickets - sure there can be innocents. But parking tickets - the ticketed are almost always guilty. Of all the things to complain about regarding the government, you probably picked the most legitimate of all in parking enforcement. I mean, I don't like all the rules and fines, but it's a pretty clear thing and a pretty clear fine & collection process. Everyone knows you can get your car booted too.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Sure, and I eventually paid up, that's alright. It's not alright to force me to sleep in a car and wash under a hose behind a gas station, and to look for change in coffee automats. I actually would've paid faster if I had money for my food and rent, as I would've been able to work normally.
  - exclusiv 6y ago
    Did you go to court? Or just not pay for a long time? You said "take all your money". Was that indirect due to the fine amount or are you saying they actively took it (like a garnishment)? Apart from the hack I mentioned, there are also options if you cannot afford. Example: in LA they have community service or payment plan options. [1] [1] https://ladot.lacity.org/projects/parking-in-la/pay-your-parking-citation https://ladot.lacity.org/projects/parking-in-la/pay-your-par...
    - emteycz 6y ago
      I am actually in the great social paradise of European Union. It's not as good here as the EU shills make it out to be, unfortunately; I'd love to be in the USA. My court was automatical and behind my back without any notice, and there wasn't anything I could do after they forced my bank account into negative balance equivalent to median yearly wage. Not sure what the US equivalent of this would be, this is how the EU deals with debts; they will go to whatever they label as your home and take the stuff there if the bank account is too empty, regardless of whose stuff is it - no real way to appeal after it's done. My bank account fortunately paid for half of the debt so they didn't immediately go steal stuff from my parents.

rzz3 6y ago

As if USD is green...

mjfl 6y ago

"Equivalent to the carbon footprint of 694,893 VISA transactions" That's actually way less than I thought. How much energy does the VISA network expend? Aren't their trillions of transactions per year?

A12-B 6y ago
It's less than you thought? What did you think it would be and why?
- mjfl 6y ago
  Greater than the energy expenditure of all Visa transactions? This makes it seem more efficient than Visa
estreeper 6y ago
There may be a problem with the way this site is laid out because another thread thought the same thing, but this is the carbon footprint from a single BTC transaction.

rmetzler 6y ago

I really don't understand how any company creating batteries from lithium can be considered "green".

etrautmann 6y ago
Why is that? Is lithium worse in a relative sense than other battery chemistries, or fossil fuels?
- rmetzler 6y ago
  I didn't compare Tesla to another car company, I just stated that I don't think this is "green".
  - DFHippie 6y ago
    But if you're going to buy a car you can rank your choices by how green they are. A Hummer is comparatively less green than most choices. A Tesla is comparatively more green, arguably. Regardless of whether you agree, that is one of their main selling points. I would think this is obvious and well known.
    - volta83 6y ago
      > A Tesla is comparatively more green, arguably. Arguably? The Teslas are "recycled" by shipping them to the middle east, which then "recycle" them by shipping them to pakistan, india, etc., which ten "recycle" them by dumping the lithium batteries into their rivers. I don't see how this is, by any measure of "greeness" greener than a Hummer, since first of all, a hummer can run in those countries for 100 years and is easy to repair (as opposed to "repairing" a lithium battery, which is essentially impossible), and second, even if you were to dump a Hummer into a river, that's not as horrible as just literally dumping lithium.

bryanlarsen 6y ago

Elon originally funded Tesla because he thought the world was going to run out of oil, not for environmental reasons.

EForEndeavour 6y ago
I'd consider the world's oil reserves to be part of the environment!

chemmail 6y ago

While i'm not some Elon maniac, I think these people need to stop eating, because that is more environmentally unfriendly.

A12-B 6y ago
i wonder what the difference between eating and using bitcoin could possibly be..

xiphias2 6y ago

The title doesn't match the article title...this sucks

massinstall 6y ago
Check today's news, Tesla bought $1.5bln in Bitcoin and will accept it as payment from its customers. Bitcoin fans will likely welcome this and laud it as a step forward. Many of them are not informed about the devastating environmental impact of blockchain-based technologies, sadly neither is Elon apparently. Some will simply not care even after having informed themselves. When the next generation begins to ask questions eventually how we could have let this happen, it will be a "big surprise" and we "couldn't have known". Again. The cycle continues...
- xiphias2 6y ago
  There are rules on HN for a reason. The title is clickbaity. The author could have just reposted the article with a 2020 title, but chose to clickbait people.

endori97 6y ago

>>or 52,255 hours of watching Youtube 1 billion hours of YouTube are watched per day... so Bitcoin is ~20,000x greener than YouTube consumption?

estreeper 6y ago
The layout is a bit confusing, but that's the amount of energy used for a single transaction.