6 ms·

When you think Managers (Directors) are more worth then the peoples who actually create something. Maybe have a look at Gates and Musk who are actually enginee

by nix23 6y ago

When you think Managers (Directors) are more worth then the peoples who actually create something. Maybe have a look at Gates and Musk who are actually engineers rather then Managers....or more correct Managing-Engineers. But congratulation for your "demotion".

soperj 6y ago
I looked at Gates' game DONKEY.BAS, you're right in that he did create something...
mssundaram 6y ago
What you're ignorant of is intangible value. Sure there are managers and C levels that don't, but I'd bet that most are successful at creating value that you're just quite not able to see.
- nix23 6y ago
  >but I'd bet that most are successful at creating value that you're just quite not able to see. I did not say they create nothing, i just said that they should not be held to a higher "rank" than people who actually create something real, with that said there should not be a feeling of "demotion" from director to developer...quite the opposite in fact. BTW: Look at your reaction, instantly calling me ignorant because i think managers are just gears in the system and NOT drivers.
- cambalache 6y ago
  How convenient. A huge percentage of managers in large organizations are expert on talking the talk, read this: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... Any big organization will optimize for people who can extract as much value from their peers/subordinates and present it as their own. By the way, this does not mean they are not smart or hard working, but you could say the same about any other worker.
arcturus17 6y ago
Most of the value that Gates created was as a pure manager. He was a programmer before, possibly amazing at it too, but I'd hardly say his role at Microsoft was that of an engineer-manager. He regularly attended engineering meetings throughout his tenure as CEO (he says so in that Netflix mini-series about him) but by far his largest drivers for creating value were how he envisioned software eating the world (esp. the enterprise), and how he executed a commercial strategy to perfection to build a monopoly around that vision. Not to downplay the difficulty of building operating systems at scale, or that Microsoft might have made some impressive innovations in the 80s and 90s, but they always had a reputation for their products being "OK" at best, so I'd argue their dominant position was acquired through wheelin' and dealin' more than anything else.
- nix23 6y ago
  I think he was more engineer than manager, hence Steve Ballmer.

by nix23 6y ago

soperj 6y ago

I looked at Gates' game DONKEY.BAS, you're right in that he did create something...

mssundaram 6y ago

What you're ignorant of is intangible value. Sure there are managers and C levels that don't, but I'd bet that most are successful at creating value that you're just quite not able to see.

nix23 6y ago
>but I'd bet that most are successful at creating value that you're just quite not able to see. I did not say they create nothing, i just said that they should not be held to a higher "rank" than people who actually create something real, with that said there should not be a feeling of "demotion" from director to developer...quite the opposite in fact. BTW: Look at your reaction, instantly calling me ignorant because i think managers are just gears in the system and NOT drivers.
cambalache 6y ago
How convenient. A huge percentage of managers in large organizations are expert on talking the talk, read this: https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/ https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-... Any big organization will optimize for people who can extract as much value from their peers/subordinates and present it as their own. By the way, this does not mean they are not smart or hard working, but you could say the same about any other worker.

arcturus17 6y ago

Most of the value that Gates created was as a pure manager. He was a programmer before, possibly amazing at it too, but I'd hardly say his role at Microsoft was that of an engineer-manager. He regularly attended engineering meetings throughout his tenure as CEO (he says so in that Netflix mini-series about him) but by far his largest drivers for creating value were how he envisioned software eating the world (esp. the enterprise), and how he executed a commercial strategy to perfection to build a monopoly around that vision. Not to downplay the difficulty of building operating systems at scale, or that Microsoft might have made some impressive innovations in the 80s and 90s, but they always had a reputation for their products being "OK" at best, so I'd argue their dominant position was acquired through wheelin' and dealin' more than anything else.

nix23 6y ago
I think he was more engineer than manager, hence Steve Ballmer.