5 ms·

> The study authors also point out that they followed convention for genetic analyses by dropping from their study people whose biological sex and self-identifi

by Udik 6y ago

> The study authors also point out that they followed convention for genetic analyses by dropping from their study people whose biological sex and self-identified gender did not match. As a result, the work doesn’t include sexual and gender minorities (the LGBTQ community) such as transgender people and intersex people. I don't get it, isn't this the whole point of the study? The G in LGBTQ stands for "gay", did they exclude people who self-identify as gay from a study meant to find the genetic basis of being gay?

Aeronwen 6y ago
Narrowing things down is easier when you control for one aspect instead of multiple ones. If, hypothetically, being trans inverted the expression of the gene for being gay, you'd have a harder time finding the gene until you accounted for it. By eliminating the possibility, you make it easier to find the gene you're looking for. If you can't find the gene in the smaller pool of subjects, you weren't going to find it in the larger one. But if you did find it, you can learn how it affects everyone in a different study.
- Udik 6y ago
  > If, hypothetically, being trans inverted the expression of the gene for being gay That, although always possible, seems pretty far-fetched. > If you can't find the gene in the smaller pool of subjects, you weren't going to find it in the larger one. Except that here the larger one includes precisely the community of people that has the highest incidence of same-sex attraction. Imagine trying to determine the influence of genetics on skin colour after having removed from your study everyone who self-identifies as black.
  - tofery 6y ago
    >That, although always possible, seems pretty far-fetched. Sure, perhaps it is farfetched. But the point is trying to eliminate as many variations as possible to focus on a smaller set of people. Then once we have that, we can expand outward. Consider that instead of there being a "gay gene", there is a gene (or set of genes) that controls not homosexuality, but androphilia (sexual attraction to men/males/masculinity) and perhaps another that controls gynephilia (sexual attraction to women/females/femininity). [note 1] In that case, by looking at only one sex we could find such a gene. This is just an example of which there are many, but my intent is to show why looking at a smaller sample first could prove useful later. Note 1: There is some precedent for this particular theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia
frant-hartm 6y ago
Last time I checked gay wasn't a gender. So they likely excluded transsexual men (biological women) who are attracted to men and vice versa.
- Udik 6y ago
  The text I quoted says "sexual and gender minorities (the LGBTQ community)". The G in LGBTQ stands for "gay". It also says "people whose biological sex and self-identified gender did not match" which seems to include biological males who identify as women. (But maybe you're right and the article is imprecise, and what they meant is just that they excluded F to M transsexuals). Then we could also question whether there is or not a a higher probability for gays to also initiate a gender transition- my hunch is that there is, although of course being gay doesn't per se imply a desire to transition to the opposite sex.
  - transthrow123 6y ago
    > Then we could also question whether there is or not a a higher probability for gays to also initiate a gender transition- my hunch is that there is, although of course being gay doesn't per se imply a desire to transition to the opposite sex. While there's probably a slightly higher probability, the perils and feelings that most trans persons will describe are not something that will match with the experience of someone who is gay. Imagine you suffered serious injury to most of your body, disfiguring you and making it hard or painful for you to recognize yourself in the mirror. That's effectively what puberty was to me. As a young child, I was aware that I was different, but I was mostly okay until my body started changing in the wrong way. I've found that most (though certainly not all) trans persons I've talked to resonate with that description. Interestingly, among transwomen in America studies have shown that roughly 60% report experiencing attraction to women, and it's only around 20% that report exclusively feeling attracted to men.
- tofery 6y ago
  > Last time I checked gay wasn't a gender. "Gender" is quite ill-defined, I've found. In fact, some cultures do believe that male homosexuality is a gender, like the Samoan concept of "fa'afafine".

by Udik 6y ago

Aeronwen 6y ago

Narrowing things down is easier when you control for one aspect instead of multiple ones. If, hypothetically, being trans inverted the expression of the gene for being gay, you'd have a harder time finding the gene until you accounted for it. By eliminating the possibility, you make it easier to find the gene you're looking for. If you can't find the gene in the smaller pool of subjects, you weren't going to find it in the larger one. But if you did find it, you can learn how it affects everyone in a different study.

Udik 6y ago
> If, hypothetically, being trans inverted the expression of the gene for being gay That, although always possible, seems pretty far-fetched. > If you can't find the gene in the smaller pool of subjects, you weren't going to find it in the larger one. Except that here the larger one includes precisely the community of people that has the highest incidence of same-sex attraction. Imagine trying to determine the influence of genetics on skin colour after having removed from your study everyone who self-identifies as black.
- tofery 6y ago
  >That, although always possible, seems pretty far-fetched. Sure, perhaps it is farfetched. But the point is trying to eliminate as many variations as possible to focus on a smaller set of people. Then once we have that, we can expand outward. Consider that instead of there being a "gay gene", there is a gene (or set of genes) that controls not homosexuality, but androphilia (sexual attraction to men/males/masculinity) and perhaps another that controls gynephilia (sexual attraction to women/females/femininity). [note 1] In that case, by looking at only one sex we could find such a gene. This is just an example of which there are many, but my intent is to show why looking at a smaller sample first could prove useful later. Note 1: There is some precedent for this particular theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androphilia_and_gynephilia

frant-hartm 6y ago

Last time I checked gay wasn't a gender. So they likely excluded transsexual men (biological women) who are attracted to men and vice versa.

Udik 6y ago
The text I quoted says "sexual and gender minorities (the LGBTQ community)". The G in LGBTQ stands for "gay". It also says "people whose biological sex and self-identified gender did not match" which seems to include biological males who identify as women. (But maybe you're right and the article is imprecise, and what they meant is just that they excluded F to M transsexuals). Then we could also question whether there is or not a a higher probability for gays to also initiate a gender transition- my hunch is that there is, although of course being gay doesn't per se imply a desire to transition to the opposite sex.
- transthrow123 6y ago
  > Then we could also question whether there is or not a a higher probability for gays to also initiate a gender transition- my hunch is that there is, although of course being gay doesn't per se imply a desire to transition to the opposite sex. While there's probably a slightly higher probability, the perils and feelings that most trans persons will describe are not something that will match with the experience of someone who is gay. Imagine you suffered serious injury to most of your body, disfiguring you and making it hard or painful for you to recognize yourself in the mirror. That's effectively what puberty was to me. As a young child, I was aware that I was different, but I was mostly okay until my body started changing in the wrong way. I've found that most (though certainly not all) trans persons I've talked to resonate with that description. Interestingly, among transwomen in America studies have shown that roughly 60% report experiencing attraction to women, and it's only around 20% that report exclusively feeling attracted to men.
tofery 6y ago
> Last time I checked gay wasn't a gender. "Gender" is quite ill-defined, I've found. In fact, some cultures do believe that male homosexuality is a gender, like the Samoan concept of "fa'afafine".