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You don't know any people from Venezuela I take it, or any countries experiencing hyper-inflation. And not to say that that is THE killer use-case, but it cert

You don't know any people from Venezuela I take it, or any countries experiencing hyper-inflation. And not to say that that is THE killer use-case, but it certainly is A use-case for Bitcoin. Bitcoin started with essentially novelty and "collectibles" value, like baseball cards or celebrity signatures or fine art pieces, but doesn't depend on shifting interests or demand to justify its underlying technical/foundational values of decentralized trust. The comparison to digital gold is apt, especially if you don't stumble on the red herring that gold has physical industrial/commercial applications beyond just being shiny-and-rare-and-has-history. But, physical gold has pitfalls too: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Mystery-of-2bn-of-loans-backed-by-fake-gold-in-China https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Mystery-of-2bn-of-l.... What is the economic value of being able to 100% prove via battle-tested cryptography, that you own the asset that you say you do? What is the value of the technology behind being able to do that? The token's value is simply a proxy for the technology. Bitcoin being a store of value doesn't mean that, a bunch of idiots keep convincing each other that it's more and more valuable; it really means that, the global economy recognizes that they'd rather have provable ownership over X amount of bitcoin, then some equivalent $Y amount of fiat.

Closi 6y ago
The red herring being that there actually is some intrinsic value, rather than zero intrinsic value? And we should ignore that it has historically been a store of value for thousands of years?
- strgcmc 6y ago
  What is the "intrinsic value" of fine art? Why is it a billion dollar industry?
  - Closi 6y ago
    Art can have intrinsic value - beauty, inspiration and enjoyment. Dependent on the artwork it may even have historic or spiritual value. Art doesn't tend to be a good thing to invest in for returns - some artworks become more culturally significant and appreciate, while others fall into obscurity and irrelevance as their style falls out of fashion (see: Damien Hurst). Insurance, sale fees e.t.c. further cut into any kind of return. What's your point? Art is valuable thus crypto is valuable? I don't think one follows the other.
    - strgcmc 6y ago
      Crypto has beauty too. Surely technologists can appreciate an elegant algorithm? Art takes years of craft to perfect, and part of the value of the final piece reflects the years of work that went into training and developing the artist's skills. Well, crypto too is a craft, built on decades of research and centuries of mathematics (much like the long view of art history would say that one school of art influences the next, over centuries). And much like art, not every piece of art appeals to every audience, but that doesn't mean that unpopular art can't have beauty, and likewise just because some may not appreciate the cryptographic beauty of the algorithms and consensus mechanisms behind Bitcoin, doesn't mean it can't have beauty... It just means you might not appreciate it, just like you might not appreciate all pieces of art. My point is that, if you break the individual elements that contribute to the value of art, and think about why billionaires buy and sell art, then a lot of those first principles for why value exists, can also be applied to crypto (e.g. scarcity, ease of exchange relative to holding gold at least, a sense of value that isn't tied to practical applications, etc.). And in fact, trading pieces of art around and dealing with physical custody and preservation and forgeries/authenticity and "provenance", just seems to be like an inefficient/clunky physical world blockchain with extra steps and ineffective tokens, if you ask me. So really my point is just that, crypto having some inherent value beyond just tulip mania/pump and dump/greater fool/etc., maybe isn't so weird at all.
badestrand 6y ago
> You don't know any people from Venezuela I take it, or any countries experiencing hyper-inflation. I agree that this is a use case but due to BitCoin's extreme volatility it is not really good for that either. Any stable coin is much better suited for this.
- delaaxe 6y ago
  You missed the point. A Venezuelan stablecoin pegged to the bolivar would be useless to protect oneself from the country's hyper inflation

Closi 6y ago

The red herring being that there actually is some intrinsic value, rather than zero intrinsic value? And we should ignore that it has historically been a store of value for thousands of years?

strgcmc 6y ago
What is the "intrinsic value" of fine art? Why is it a billion dollar industry?
- Closi 6y ago
  Art can have intrinsic value - beauty, inspiration and enjoyment. Dependent on the artwork it may even have historic or spiritual value. Art doesn't tend to be a good thing to invest in for returns - some artworks become more culturally significant and appreciate, while others fall into obscurity and irrelevance as their style falls out of fashion (see: Damien Hurst). Insurance, sale fees e.t.c. further cut into any kind of return. What's your point? Art is valuable thus crypto is valuable? I don't think one follows the other.
  - strgcmc 6y ago
    Crypto has beauty too. Surely technologists can appreciate an elegant algorithm? Art takes years of craft to perfect, and part of the value of the final piece reflects the years of work that went into training and developing the artist's skills. Well, crypto too is a craft, built on decades of research and centuries of mathematics (much like the long view of art history would say that one school of art influences the next, over centuries). And much like art, not every piece of art appeals to every audience, but that doesn't mean that unpopular art can't have beauty, and likewise just because some may not appreciate the cryptographic beauty of the algorithms and consensus mechanisms behind Bitcoin, doesn't mean it can't have beauty... It just means you might not appreciate it, just like you might not appreciate all pieces of art. My point is that, if you break the individual elements that contribute to the value of art, and think about why billionaires buy and sell art, then a lot of those first principles for why value exists, can also be applied to crypto (e.g. scarcity, ease of exchange relative to holding gold at least, a sense of value that isn't tied to practical applications, etc.). And in fact, trading pieces of art around and dealing with physical custody and preservation and forgeries/authenticity and "provenance", just seems to be like an inefficient/clunky physical world blockchain with extra steps and ineffective tokens, if you ask me. So really my point is just that, crypto having some inherent value beyond just tulip mania/pump and dump/greater fool/etc., maybe isn't so weird at all.

badestrand 6y ago

> You don't know any people from Venezuela I take it, or any countries experiencing hyper-inflation. I agree that this is a use case but due to BitCoin's extreme volatility it is not really good for that either. Any stable coin is much better suited for this.

delaaxe 6y ago
You missed the point. A Venezuelan stablecoin pegged to the bolivar would be useless to protect oneself from the country's hyper inflation