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> An argument for gay rights has been that people are "born that way". That appears to be false Only if you take the strict literal definition of the phrase "b

> An argument for gay rights has been that people are "born that way". That appears to be false Only if you take the strict literal definition of the phrase "born that way" to mean your genetic make-up. A person has little to no control over their environmental factors during their upbringing. Everything from average air temperature, food nutrient makeup, airborne particles, etc are environmental factors that we know influence other aspects of human development. Your comment is making the assumption that the environmental factor that causes homosexuality is witnessing other members of the species be homosexual, which is a large leap of logic to make. Especially knowing that homosexuality is quite common in the animal kingdom despite penguins not participating in Pride Months.

hyperpape 6y ago
Entirely right. Even more: "environment" in this context includes the pre-natal environment.
Bostonian 6y ago
"Your comment is making the assumption that the environmental factor that causes homosexuality is witnessing other members of the species be homosexual, which is a large leap of logic to make." I think research has found that people are more likely to engage in a behavior if they see others doing the same. For example, someone who would not ordinarily shoplift may do so during a riot where many people are looting stores. A 2019 survey found that "U.S. adults estimate that 23.6% of Americans are gay or lesbian", while Gallup estimates the fraction to be 4.5%. Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overestimate-gay-population.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overes... . I think this overestimation may influence some behavior at the margin.
- tofery 6y ago
  I'd be interested in hearing the voices of those downvoting this. Is one of the claims in the comment false, or do you disagree with the conclusion "I think this overestimation may influence some behavior at the margin." [note1] (or both)? Additionally, what if the conclusion is right (hypothetically)? Is it really that improbable? And if the greater acceptance of homosexuality as of recently (compared to, say, the 19th century) does cause some otherwise-straight people to be gay, what exactly is the problem with that? Would that be something we should address? And more generally, if we did find an environmental factor that was linked to homosexuality, would we want to address that factor? Note 1: User Bostonian uses the term "at the margin" in their comment, and I don't know what they meant by that. I'm taking it to be the subset of people who are unsure of their sexuality, though perhaps the author was referring to something else.

hyperpape 6y ago

Entirely right. Even more: "environment" in this context includes the pre-natal environment.

Bostonian 6y ago

"Your comment is making the assumption that the environmental factor that causes homosexuality is witnessing other members of the species be homosexual, which is a large leap of logic to make." I think research has found that people are more likely to engage in a behavior if they see others doing the same. For example, someone who would not ordinarily shoplift may do so during a riot where many people are looting stores. A 2019 survey found that "U.S. adults estimate that 23.6% of Americans are gay or lesbian", while Gallup estimates the fraction to be 4.5%. Link: https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overestimate-gay-population.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/259571/americans-greatly-overes... . I think this overestimation may influence some behavior at the margin.

tofery 6y ago
I'd be interested in hearing the voices of those downvoting this. Is one of the claims in the comment false, or do you disagree with the conclusion "I think this overestimation may influence some behavior at the margin." [note1] (or both)? Additionally, what if the conclusion is right (hypothetically)? Is it really that improbable? And if the greater acceptance of homosexuality as of recently (compared to, say, the 19th century) does cause some otherwise-straight people to be gay, what exactly is the problem with that? Would that be something we should address? And more generally, if we did find an environmental factor that was linked to homosexuality, would we want to address that factor? Note 1: User Bostonian uses the term "at the margin" in their comment, and I don't know what they meant by that. I'm taking it to be the subset of people who are unsure of their sexuality, though perhaps the author was referring to something else.