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There have been serious side effects documented for these vaccines. Bruising, soreness, "covid mouth", miscarriages, deaths, anaphylactic shock, etc. The vaccin

There have been serious side effects documented for these vaccines. Bruising, soreness, "covid mouth", miscarriages, deaths, anaphylactic shock, etc. The vaccine has also not been out long enough to know of any long term health issues. The data is not in whether they are effective against death. They didn't test the super vulnerable in the studies. If you look at the places that have high vaccination numbers, you don't actually see any significant drop in covid cases or deaths. If anything, those places are staying high while the rest of the world is dropping. They were released under emergency authorization which means that they haven't fully testing and verified them to the level that would normally be done. If they are as effective as the hype, we should be seeing significant positive results by now.

roseway4 6y ago
> miscarriages, deaths, anaphylactic shock I've seen coverage of anaphylaxis, but not death and miscarriages. Anaphylaxis is also extremely rare and causality is unproven. Would you please provide references for the other severe side effects you listed?
- jhawk28 6y ago
  https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/974345-1 https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/974345-1
  - roseway4 6y ago
    Is OpenVAERs a legitimate source of information for vaccine injury? The site claims the data is sourced from the HHS. Has this been validated? If so, is this raw data or has it been reviewed and vetted by HHS. Self-reported data from non-medical professionals likely needs significant vetting, analysis and interpretation.
jc_811 6y ago
Do you have a valid source for any of the information you just claimed?
- jhawk28 6y ago
  Read for yourself. Disclaimer: these are reports that an adverse reaction occurred. It does not "necessarily" mean that they are the result of the vaccine. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42325700 https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&Port...
  - zeku 6y ago
    You do realize that these events must be compared to the natural rate of these events, right? There will be people who die the day after their vaccine, because they are old and fat and will have a heart attack. There will be people who die of rare diseases within hours of their vaccine, because we are intending to vaccinate the entire world and these things happen naturally and likely have nothing to do with the vaccine. Until you have data in a control group comparing the rate of these events to the vaccinated group, you have absolutely nothing other than fear mongering.
    - jhawk28 6y ago
      Completely agree except for "Until you have data in a control group comparing the rate of these events to the vaccinated group, you have absolutely nothing other than fear mongering." If these vaccines were released under a normal process, it meant that there was enough trials/scientific consensus that they were effective and did not cause significant adverse reactions. There were limited trials and many at risk people were excluded from them. So you can't say that "its safe for a pregnant woman to take the vaccine". You can only say, "there is no information that says it is not safe for a pregnant woman to take the vaccine". All you know is that 5 adverse reactions (miscarriages) were reported. How adverse reactions was it based on how many took it? You don't know. It wasn't in a trial.
1053r 6y ago
This is anti-vaxxer fud. If you look at places that have high vaccination numbers, oh wait, there aren't any. Israel is leading the world with only about 20% of their population having undergone a full vaccination regimen, and it takes a few weeks after the second dose for immunity to reach its highest level. Given how fast they are vaccinating, a very high proportion of that 20% was given that second shot in the last few days. In other words, there is no place on Earth where we would expect vaccination to have an impossible to dispute effect on the top-line deaths or hospitalization numbers... yet. Give it 6 weeks. To your other points about side effects, nearly 100m people globally have gotten at least one shot. The mild side effects which require a day off work are completely worth it, and the severe ones happen extremely rarely, to where a risk adjusted decision even for a very young and healthy person would still be to get the vaccine. Only one of your points is even mildly valid, that the vaccines haven't been out long enough to know if there are any long term health issues. While we won't know this for generations, because of the definition of "long term," we also have no reason to believe that there would be long term health issues, while we know that SARS-COV-2 infection can DEFINITELY cause long term health issues in a significant minority of people infected. Lastly, many folks pushing anti-vaxxer propaganda are selling something: usually quack cures. Ignore the parent comment, and focus on the facts.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- jhawk28 6y ago
  Asking whether these covid vaccines work is not anti-vaxxer. The antithesis also holds true, what data shows that they are working? Your example of Israel is the most troubling because they have the highest proportion of vaccinations, but their statistics of cases/deaths are not falling as fast as the rest of the world (or even the Palestinian population that isn't getting vaccinated). Does it mean that the vaccines don't work? Not necessarily. It could be as you suggested, not yet. It could mean that people are changing their behaviors now they are vaccinated. It could mean that at risk people are getting sick on the way to/from getting the vaccine.
  - Terretta 6y ago

roseway4 6y ago

> miscarriages, deaths, anaphylactic shock I've seen coverage of anaphylaxis, but not death and miscarriages. Anaphylaxis is also extremely rare and causality is unproven. Would you please provide references for the other severe side effects you listed?

jhawk28 6y ago
https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/974345-1 https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data/974345-1
- roseway4 6y ago
  Is OpenVAERs a legitimate source of information for vaccine injury? The site claims the data is sourced from the HHS. Has this been validated? If so, is this raw data or has it been reviewed and vetted by HHS. Self-reported data from non-medical professionals likely needs significant vetting, analysis and interpretation.

jc_811 6y ago

Do you have a valid source for any of the information you just claimed?

jhawk28 6y ago
Read for yourself. Disclaimer: these are reports that an adverse reaction occurred. It does not "necessarily" mean that they are the result of the vaccine. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&PortalPath=%2Fshared%2FPHV%20DAP%2F_portal%2FDAP&Action=Navigate&P0=1&P1=eq&P2=%22Line%20Listing%20Objects%22.%22Substance%20High%20Level%20Code%22&P3=1+42325700 https://dap.ema.europa.eu/analytics/saw.dll?PortalPages&Port...
- zeku 6y ago
  You do realize that these events must be compared to the natural rate of these events, right? There will be people who die the day after their vaccine, because they are old and fat and will have a heart attack. There will be people who die of rare diseases within hours of their vaccine, because we are intending to vaccinate the entire world and these things happen naturally and likely have nothing to do with the vaccine. Until you have data in a control group comparing the rate of these events to the vaccinated group, you have absolutely nothing other than fear mongering.
  - jhawk28 6y ago
    Completely agree except for "Until you have data in a control group comparing the rate of these events to the vaccinated group, you have absolutely nothing other than fear mongering." If these vaccines were released under a normal process, it meant that there was enough trials/scientific consensus that they were effective and did not cause significant adverse reactions. There were limited trials and many at risk people were excluded from them. So you can't say that "its safe for a pregnant woman to take the vaccine". You can only say, "there is no information that says it is not safe for a pregnant woman to take the vaccine". All you know is that 5 adverse reactions (miscarriages) were reported. How adverse reactions was it based on how many took it? You don't know. It wasn't in a trial.

1053r 6y ago

This is anti-vaxxer fud. If you look at places that have high vaccination numbers, oh wait, there aren't any. Israel is leading the world with only about 20% of their population having undergone a full vaccination regimen, and it takes a few weeks after the second dose for immunity to reach its highest level. Given how fast they are vaccinating, a very high proportion of that 20% was given that second shot in the last few days. In other words, there is no place on Earth where we would expect vaccination to have an impossible to dispute effect on the top-line deaths or hospitalization numbers... yet. Give it 6 weeks. To your other points about side effects, nearly 100m people globally have gotten at least one shot. The mild side effects which require a day off work are completely worth it, and the severe ones happen extremely rarely, to where a risk adjusted decision even for a very young and healthy person would still be to get the vaccine. Only one of your points is even mildly valid, that the vaccines haven't been out long enough to know if there are any long term health issues. While we won't know this for generations, because of the definition of "long term," we also have no reason to believe that there would be long term health issues, while we know that SARS-COV-2 infection can DEFINITELY cause long term health issues in a significant minority of people infected. Lastly, many folks pushing anti-vaxxer propaganda are selling something: usually quack cures. Ignore the parent comment, and focus on the facts.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
jhawk28 6y ago
Asking whether these covid vaccines work is not anti-vaxxer. The antithesis also holds true, what data shows that they are working? Your example of Israel is the most troubling because they have the highest proportion of vaccinations, but their statistics of cases/deaths are not falling as fast as the rest of the world (or even the Palestinian population that isn't getting vaccinated). Does it mean that the vaccines don't work? Not necessarily. It could be as you suggested, not yet. It could mean that people are changing their behaviors now they are vaccinated. It could mean that at risk people are getting sick on the way to/from getting the vaccine.
- Terretta 6y ago