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What about when people DON'T want to live in a jurisdiction? So far even attempts are seastading failed due to traditional countries destroying them militarily

What about when people DON'T want to live in a jurisdiction? So far even attempts are seastading failed due to traditional countries destroying them militarily (one italian attempt for example was just bombed until nothing remained, and an attempt the pacific resulted in nearby countries landing troops on the built islands and kicking people out)

SigmundA 6y ago
Because thats whats happens when you don't have a government, either one will come in and become your government through force, or you become a government with enough force to prevent take over. Some entity (state) has to have the monopoly on violence to enforce laws or there are no enforceable laws.
- mvc 6y ago
  Exactly! You can have "total liberty" to the extent that you can defend it. Since the cost of defending it against nation states (or frankly even against well-resourced pirates) is so high, most people group together and form their own nation state.
pionar 6y ago
Do you have an example of this happening where people didn't settle on land/sea that was already claimed by another entity? Because that's still in someone's jurisdiction.
- speeder 6y ago
  I think few people are willing to risk that. When there was some kind of micronation-mania some years ago, with multiple mainstream papers mentioning Sealand and that Australian farmer and whatnot, I went to check, and found out that the UN itself is quite dangerous, in fact is why being "UN recognized" as a country is so important (for example why Taiwan would want to be a country officially), the UN navigation laws state that everyone that is a member of the UN has several rights of navigation, and the US for example is one of the main enforcers of these (US warships patrol around the world to ensure "free passage"), but the way those rigths is written, imply that if you are NOT a member of the UN, any member can sink you without any penalty. Thus the only way to be anywhere on the sea while not being in the UN, is if you are ally of the US (Taiwan), because otherwise you are at risk of being shot at. I don't think China has yet the navy needed to counterbalance that.
bildung 6y ago
Isn't that exactly what one would expect a free market for juristications to look like?
neilwilson 6y ago
"What about when people DON'T want to live in a jurisdiction?" Then the Big Man with the most guns and the heaviest mates becomes the jurisdiction. And you don't get to vote for him. Because when it boils down to it human beings are just Strategically Shaved Chimps.

SigmundA 6y ago

Because thats whats happens when you don't have a government, either one will come in and become your government through force, or you become a government with enough force to prevent take over. Some entity (state) has to have the monopoly on violence to enforce laws or there are no enforceable laws.

mvc 6y ago
Exactly! You can have "total liberty" to the extent that you can defend it. Since the cost of defending it against nation states (or frankly even against well-resourced pirates) is so high, most people group together and form their own nation state.

pionar 6y ago

Do you have an example of this happening where people didn't settle on land/sea that was already claimed by another entity? Because that's still in someone's jurisdiction.

speeder 6y ago
I think few people are willing to risk that. When there was some kind of micronation-mania some years ago, with multiple mainstream papers mentioning Sealand and that Australian farmer and whatnot, I went to check, and found out that the UN itself is quite dangerous, in fact is why being "UN recognized" as a country is so important (for example why Taiwan would want to be a country officially), the UN navigation laws state that everyone that is a member of the UN has several rights of navigation, and the US for example is one of the main enforcers of these (US warships patrol around the world to ensure "free passage"), but the way those rigths is written, imply that if you are NOT a member of the UN, any member can sink you without any penalty. Thus the only way to be anywhere on the sea while not being in the UN, is if you are ally of the US (Taiwan), because otherwise you are at risk of being shot at. I don't think China has yet the navy needed to counterbalance that.

bildung 6y ago

Isn't that exactly what one would expect a free market for juristications to look like?

neilwilson 6y ago

"What about when people DON'T want to live in a jurisdiction?" Then the Big Man with the most guns and the heaviest mates becomes the jurisdiction. And you don't get to vote for him. Because when it boils down to it human beings are just Strategically Shaved Chimps.