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Has bitcoin actually solved that problem though?
by robjan 6y ago
Has bitcoin actually solved that problem though?
- vntok 6y agoYes it has, anyone in the world can open their own "current account"/"deposit account" for free, right now. Barring hacking you, no government or authority can access it without your consent. None can prevent you from receiving money in it from someone else, or from transferring money out of it to someone else.
- robjan 6y agoI can receive bitcoins but I cant buy food with bitcoins or pay my staff with bitcoins. At some point I need to convert these coins to fiat and that's subject to the same controls that GP noted.
- chill1 6y agoAre you sure you can't spend Bitcoin directly for goods and services? Have you tried? When was the last time you searched for physical shops near you [1] that accept it? [1] https://coinmap.org/ https://coinmap.org/
- twox2 6y agoThe fees are too high and at least in the US, every transaction is taxable.
- chill1 6y agoNo one should be using on-chain Bitcoin transactions for in-person exchange. Partly due to the high fees, but mostly because of double-spending and lack of privacy. Lightning Network solves all of these problems. Fees are much lower, settlement is instant and clear to even unsophisticated users, and the recipient cannot see from where the funds originated. Taxes are a different issue and that's up to each jurisdiction to solve via better legislation.
- twox2 6y agoDon't you still have to pay the tx fee to open a lightning network channel? Anyway the whole thing lost me with the block size debate (always been a big blocker). Where are we at with lightning network adoption anyway?
- chill1 6y agoYes, an on-chain transaction is required to open a channel. But once open you can continue to use it forever, or until you (or your counter-party) decide to close it. Lightning Network adoption is slow and steady. There are several newbie-friendly mobile wallet apps available [1][2][3]. Some nice improvements have been developed and pushed live in the last 18 months (e.g watchtowers [4] and atomic multi-path payments (AMP) [5]). There are now five Lightning Network node implementations (lnd, eclair, c-lightning, rust lightning, Electrum). And there are hardware projects working to bring LN into the physical space - one of which is my own project, a Lightning-only Bitcoin ATM named "Bleskomat" [6]. [1] https://phoenix.acinq.co/ https://phoenix.acinq.co/ [2] https://www.walletofsatoshi.com/ https://www.walletofsatoshi.com/ (!!) <-- custodial [3] https://breez.technology/ https://breez.technology/ [4] https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/8d2582e51eb615c850b24e83d41d9f5b673cd45e/node_operations.asciidoc#watchtowers https://github.com/lnbook/lnbook/blob/8d2582e51eb615c850b24e... [5] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2018-February/000993.html https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/20... [6] https://www.bleskomat.com/ https://www.bleskomat.com/
- twox2 6y agoThanks for the references!
- duckmysick 6y agoI am sure. The nearest listed physical shop that accepts Bitcoin is 160 km away from me and it sells custom-made mugs.
- robjan 6y agoI can buy mining equipment or stay at an hourly love hotel located in the red light district in my city according to the map. I guess some of my needs could be met.
- FabHK 6y agoNot bad. I have a dentist one town over, and "Bitcoin Fabio" who has spammed the map in every major city nearby and buys and sells Bitcoin, and seems very trustworthy, because he says it is "100% safe !" I think I prefer your options...
- ac29 6y agoI looked for restaurants, groceries and cafes around Silicon Valley (which I'd think would have a higher than average density of crypto holders). There were 2, and both appear to be out of business.
- UncleMeat 6y agoThere are two restaurants like 60 miles from my location that accept btc, according to that website.
- I_am_tiberius 6y agoThat's why it's so important that Tesla may make it possible to buy cars with Bitcoin.
- andreygrehov 6y agoCoinbase is about to release a debit card [1] that you'll be able to use everywhere. [1] https://www.coinbase.com/card https://www.coinbase.com/card
- learc83 6y agoIf they do that, they’ll need to follow the same regulations any other bank does.
- FabHK 6y agoAt least it'll be able to scale... because it uses the VISA network :-)
- ac29 6y ago"Coinbase will automatically convert all cryptocurrency to US Dollars for use in purchases and ATM withdrawals". This removes a little friction, but the vendors are not taking crypto. Its not really any different than using a US credit card in a foreign country - the vendor isn't taking USD, even if thats what I end up being billed in (along with the associated fees).
- larrysalibra 6y agoSend me your bitcoins and I’ll buy food and have it sent to you. I’m sure you’ll find many others willing to take your bitcoin in exchange for helping you buy what you need or provide the services you require.
- robjan 6y agoBitcoin is supposed to be trustless but now I have to not only trust the merchant but a stranger on the internet to purchase those items using their fiat.
- MrMan 6y agoBitcoin is a leaf node in the network, like "dollar". Bank account is at a higher level. A bank is a business that provides lending ,transfer, and custody services, the currency can be anything, including bitcoin.
- agloeregrets 6y agoI.e. Bitcoin: The best way to run a sex-trafficing ring.
- capableweb 6y agoMost likely the people running sex-trafficking rings are not stupid enough to use something like Bitcoin as you don't want to have a public ledger with all your transactions fully visible on the internet if you're doing stuff like that. Probably Zcash is a more likely contender for that, as it is the only cryptocurrency offering fully anonymous transfers together with normal, public transfers in the same wallet.
- vntok 6y agoIn what way would having all your transactions publicly accessible to everyone on the planet be the best way to run an illegal business?
- ardy42 6y ago>> Has bitcoin actually solved that problem though? > Yes it has, anyone in the world can open their own "current account"/"deposit account" for free, right now. Maybe, but it simultaneously un-solves many problems around fraud and theft, because it's (for instance) impossible to reverse a transaction.