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Bitcoin miners use surplus energy in remote places with lots of thermal or hydroelectric power. Remote China and Iceland. This electricity often can't be put to

Bitcoin miners use surplus energy in remote places with lots of thermal or hydroelectric power. Remote China and Iceland. This electricity often can't be put to any other use anyway. The price of energy is probably enough to ensure this. Besides, the cost of maintaining Bitcoin has to be compared with holding up a fiat currency empire like the US. This requires lots of military, suppression of democracy and generally violence. Seen through that lense it might be quite cheap.

andrewon 6y ago
Curious what percentage of bitcoin's energy use is from surplus energy that otherwise no use?
baud147258 6y ago
recently Iran was blaming bitcoin for blackouts, so perhaps not all bitcoin is mined from hydro/thermal power. Of course it could that Iran was just looking for an easy scapegoat.
altcognito 6y ago
> This electricity often can't be put to any other use anyway. This is false. If there is surplus electricity, prices would drop, and you could expand availability. Government, especially the Chinese government is more than capable of shaping market demand. Furthermore, you could displace existing coal based electrical demand in the country. The value of currency comes from trust that you manage it well, not from the number of bombers.
- Miner49er 6y ago
  There exists energy where it's not economically viable to put on a grid, or really do anything with. Many mine Bitcoin with this energy. Even in the United States. The cost of transporting it is more then the energy is worth.
- nickflood 6y ago
  In Europe where I live, electricity costs 0.06 euro for generation and then 0.25 on top for transportation to me. So eve if the grid is vast, transport costs are vast as well.
- heidar 6y ago
  Iceland definitely has surplus energy. There's been ideas to lay a cables to mainland Europe to export it since it's going to waste at the moment.
burkaman 6y ago
Energy grids are very big, and are planned very intentionally. Renewable energy produced in remote places is often used to power far away cities. It's very unlikely that a consistent energy source capable of powering a large bitcoin mine would not be integrated into the grid if the mine wasn't there. Here's some further reading: https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoins-climate-impact-global-cures-local/ https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoins-climate-impact-global-c... https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://decrypt.co/43848/why-bitcoin-miners-dont-use-more-renewable-energy https://decrypt.co/43848/why-bitcoin-miners-dont-use-more-re... https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption
- nickflood 6y ago
  Energy transports costs are non-negligible. In fact, in Europe I pay more for the grid transfer (~0.25/kwh) than generation (0.06/kwh).
  - burkaman 6y ago
    Yes, that's one of the factors influencing planning. It will be very hard to get financing for a hydroelectric plant without existing infrastructure or some guarantee that transmission will be built. You can't just pick a river and hope the customers come to you.
- febeling 6y ago
  The grids are large, but the transport is very inefficient. That's why Bitcoin mining is becoming an alternative to previous ways to avoid wasting energy surplus, like melting aluminum ore.
  - burkaman 6y ago
    I understand the theory, but that just isn't what happens in reality, at least right now. Please at least glance at the links I listed.
cdiddy2 6y ago
Bitcoin mining is also helping to end gas flaring in the US. Instead of just burning fuel, use it to run a mining farm https://www.crusoeenergy.com/news-and-media/2019/12/8/bloomberg-why-bitcoin-mining-is-being-touted-as-a-solution-to-gas-flaring https://www.crusoeenergy.com/news-and-media/2019/12/8/bloomb...

andrewon 6y ago

Curious what percentage of bitcoin's energy use is from surplus energy that otherwise no use?

baud147258 6y ago

recently Iran was blaming bitcoin for blackouts, so perhaps not all bitcoin is mined from hydro/thermal power. Of course it could that Iran was just looking for an easy scapegoat.

altcognito 6y ago

> This electricity often can't be put to any other use anyway. This is false. If there is surplus electricity, prices would drop, and you could expand availability. Government, especially the Chinese government is more than capable of shaping market demand. Furthermore, you could displace existing coal based electrical demand in the country. The value of currency comes from trust that you manage it well, not from the number of bombers.

Miner49er 6y ago
There exists energy where it's not economically viable to put on a grid, or really do anything with. Many mine Bitcoin with this energy. Even in the United States. The cost of transporting it is more then the energy is worth.
nickflood 6y ago
In Europe where I live, electricity costs 0.06 euro for generation and then 0.25 on top for transportation to me. So eve if the grid is vast, transport costs are vast as well.
heidar 6y ago
Iceland definitely has surplus energy. There's been ideas to lay a cables to mainland Europe to export it since it's going to waste at the moment.

burkaman 6y ago

Energy grids are very big, and are planned very intentionally. Renewable energy produced in remote places is often used to power far away cities. It's very unlikely that a consistent energy source capable of powering a large bitcoin mine would not be integrated into the grid if the mine wasn't there. Here's some further reading: https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoins-climate-impact-global-cures-local/ https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoins-climate-impact-global-c... https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://www.cell.com/joule/fulltext/S2542-4351(19)30255-7 https://decrypt.co/43848/why-bitcoin-miners-dont-use-more-renewable-energy https://decrypt.co/43848/why-bitcoin-miners-dont-use-more-re... https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

nickflood 6y ago
Energy transports costs are non-negligible. In fact, in Europe I pay more for the grid transfer (~0.25/kwh) than generation (0.06/kwh).
- burkaman 6y ago
  Yes, that's one of the factors influencing planning. It will be very hard to get financing for a hydroelectric plant without existing infrastructure or some guarantee that transmission will be built. You can't just pick a river and hope the customers come to you.
febeling 6y ago
The grids are large, but the transport is very inefficient. That's why Bitcoin mining is becoming an alternative to previous ways to avoid wasting energy surplus, like melting aluminum ore.
- burkaman 6y ago
  I understand the theory, but that just isn't what happens in reality, at least right now. Please at least glance at the links I listed.

cdiddy2 6y ago

Bitcoin mining is also helping to end gas flaring in the US. Instead of just burning fuel, use it to run a mining farm https://www.crusoeenergy.com/news-and-media/2019/12/8/bloomberg-why-bitcoin-mining-is-being-touted-as-a-solution-to-gas-flaring https://www.crusoeenergy.com/news-and-media/2019/12/8/bloomb...