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> I don't understand all the Crypto hate on this site. Since when have hackers become the luddites to new ways of finance? For me, it's because nobody can expl

• bsaul 6y ago
  I made a bet with a friend based on that same reasoning two years ago, i know owe him. I believe the problem with market price in general is that there's no way to correctly evaluate if a price is "rational" or not. There are so many things plain wrong with the current state of the economy (from central banks monetary policies, to inflation, to interest rates) that i don't even consider bitcoin to be anything special anymore. It all looks like a degenerate monster agonizing, making all kind of weird sounds and shapes while going down.
  • Closi 6y ago
    I think the bet with your friend was sensible - but it does show the problem with bubbles, which is you can never predict when they go pop :) I've got no idea if it will pop in 1 day or in 50 years, but I think I've just got to stick to my guns that the fundamentals aren't there. And maybe I'll loose a lot of money compared to investing, but again, you never know where you are in the bubble cycle!
• DennisP 6y ago
  If another cryptocurrency fixed the scaling problem so it could be used as a currency, would you have a different view?
  • pelliphant 6y ago
    Not OP, but I wouldn't. I consider the tools available to central banks to be actually usefull. Example: The ability to print more or less money depending on what is needed.
    • zionic 6y ago
      This position makes all sorts of unfounded assumptions about the nature of your government, that it is operating in your best interest, that it hasn't been captured by outside forces/interests etc etc.
      • pelliphant 6y ago
        Ì'm scandinavian, so yes, I assume that my government is more on my side that pretty much any for-profit organization in the world.
        • tofuahdude 6y ago
          Consider for a moment that there's a world outside of your country with governments that are not trustworthy.
          • pelliphant 6y ago
            That is true. But people from those countries could use a currency from one of the more trusted governments instead of using bitcoins. As an example: american dollars was used as currency in a lot of soviet states.
        • insertnickname 6y ago
          I'm Scandinavian too. I don't assume that.
• sixQuarks 6y ago
  Let me explain bitcoin in a way that hackers will understand. Bitcoin is javascript. Hackers don't like javascript. It's got a lot of terrible quirks. There are so many languages better than javascript. But that doesn't matter. Javascript is ubiquitous, and you can't avoid it. Bitcoin is the same. Either you accept it as the way things are and profit from it, or you keep pounding your head against the wall.
  • tome 6y ago
    > Javascript is ubiquitous, and you can't avoid it. I can't avoid it if I want to do web frontend programming, agreed. So "what is the web frontend programming" in your analogy, i.e. the thing I can't do without Bitcoin?
    • sixQuarks 6y ago
      That's actually false. You can do what javascript does on the front-end with web assembly. Nevertheless, my point has gone right over your head if you have to ask a question like this.
      • tome 6y ago
        > That's actually false. You can do what javascript does on the front-end with web assembly. True. My comment mutatis mutandis. > my point has gone right over your head if you have to ask a question like this. Indeed it has! I would appreciate it if you could tweak it down to the level of my head.
        • sixQuarks 6y ago
          point taken, didn't mean to sound condescending. Sorry
  • bearjaws 6y ago
    Yeah but Javascript can actually be used to create a blockchain or any number of applications. I bet SpaceX could land a Falcon-9 with Javascript if they wanted nightmare difficulty. Bitcoin's main purpose for everyone I know is to buy drugs and treat as an 'investment'.
• xerxespoy 6y ago
  Bitcoin != Cryptocurrencies It's like using the term "COBOL" when you mean "programming languages", and then criticising COBOL's modern utility in that context. The parent comment was about crypto (short for "cryptocurrencies") in general, not Bitcoin, which is 12-year old technology, and broadly not fairly comparable to current cryptocurrencies or their applications. You are as correct that you can't do much with a Bitcoin as you are that you can't do much with COBOL. This doesn't however mean that programming sucks. If you're interested to learn about the space and what's going on in it, visit https://coingecko.com https://coingecko.com, select "developer", and sort the list by "Commits past 4 weeks". This is a list of currently actively developed projects. Click a few and visit their websites. For example, SC, 4th in the list, is a incentivised and decentralised cloud, which is up and working right now. You can earn money from spare storage. There are many such projects pushing various different boundaries of technology. I too find it baffling how uneducated and "luddite" many on HN are regarding blockchain and cryptocurrencies. There's a whole world of activity going on, and many here are missing out.
  • MrMan 6y ago
    Can I get paid in dollars for spare storage?
    • qqii 6y ago
      Yes, there are various cryptocurrencies that target this area, two examples are filecoin and sai.
    • xerxespoy 6y ago
      I'm not that familiar with SC but assuming there isn't a native way, you could sign up with an exchange that has SC (the major ones like Binance, Kraken & Bittrex do). Then convert it to fiat there and withdraw. Most exchanges have API's so this could be automated. There are also various decentralised exchanges that handle pegged-fiat crypto currencies for price-exposure. But after a while you may regret doing that, as much of this tech is in very early stages, and as such the value of the coins are low versus their longterm potential. If you believed in Sia/SC longterm, it might be better to hold the SC and convert to dollars later. For an example of why this may be the case, look up bitcoin pizza guy. (And obviously none of this is intended as investment advice, always do your own research, etc.)
• bhupy 6y ago
  I'll try, even though I'm also still wrapping my head around it. > It's a bad currency because it is slow to exchange and costs lots of money to exchange - I can't use it to buy my coffee in the morning. I'd say that there are 2 ways to address this: 1. Bitcoin is less analogous to cash or credit cards, and more analogous to the US dollar. Today, when you buy a cup of coffee with a credit card, your issuing processor updates a database entry reflecting that you owe the coffeeshop $X. At the end of the day, the issuing processor submits a batch file to a network of automated clearing houses to reflect this movement of money. This process is extremely asynchronous, and can take up to weeks to complete. Processing a Bitcoin transaction on the blockchain is analogous to that very slow, very asynchronous process. 2. Bitcoin is about as "bad" a currency as gold is. It's fairly impractical to pay for a cup of coffee with gold, unless you are able to carry a pile of it that's cut into small enough pieces that you can reasonably transact for cheap items like coffee. A crypto bull would tell you that if your use case is to buy a cup of coffee, you're better off using a credit card through a trusted network, where the currency that's being transacted is BTC or ETH instead of USD, JPY, EUR, GBP, etc. The reason why you would have a trusted bank account storing BTC or ETH instead of USD etc is because it lets you opt-out of being at the behest of a central bank that might co-opt a monetary policy you don't agree with — or worse, can render your currency useless if they do the wrong thing. It also lets you digitally transact with people in a trust-less way if you really need to. That is to say: you don't use Bitcoin to buy a cup of coffee, you use it to pay for porn on PornHub or OnlyFans because those companies have blocked by the major payment networks. Right now the only way to pay for stuff like that is by withdrawing cash and mailing briefcases of it. > It's a bad non-speculative asset, because it can't produce anything to deliver returns. It produces one, and only one thing, and that's trustless transactions. As long as there is a market need for this, it has some use, even if it's a niche use-case. > And if the answer to the question 'what can i do with a bitcoin?' is 'Wait until it is valuable, and then you can turn it into a currency you can actually spend' then it's not actually fulfilling what it set out to achieve. I think this is a good criticism, but is one that a bull might argue will hold less true over time. In the bull's perfect world, there exists enough tooling and frameworks to allow someone to live their entire life off of Bitcoin while still interoperating with the tradition financial systems seamlessly.
  • 6y ago
• lawn 6y ago
  > mainly the question 'what can I actually do with a bitcoin?' If we're talking about cryptocurrencies in general, then start here: https://whycryptocurrencies.com/eli5.html https://whycryptocurrencies.com/eli5.html
  • Closi 6y ago
    It doesn't answer the question. Like what am I supposed to do? Spend it? Where? I can't buy a coffee with it. The first article linked claims it has "better monetary properties than anything else in history" but then seems to misunderstand the most fundamental property - acceptability. This is actually "Do other people accept it as payment" rather than "could people theoretically accept it as payment". Fingernails do not pass this test, because even though people could accept them as payment, they don't. I can't pay for my coffee with Bitcoin without needing a secondary level of trade with some intermediate party to turn it into dollars/pounds, so I would say acceptability is in fact poor. Like are you arguing that it is a currency, or some sort of 'store of value'? Do we at least agree that Bitcoin is a bad currency? If so what is bitcoin supposed to be? I have never found anyone able to clearly explain the value proposition of bitcoin without eventually it just boiling down to "well the value is going up so I'm hodling"
    • lawn 6y ago
      > Like what am I supposed to do? Spend it? Where? I can't buy a coffee with it. Yes in certain places you can buy coffee, for example in Tokyo (although that's Bitcoin Cash, not Bitcoin). Other places include buying domains, email, hosting or VPNs while preserving your privacy. Or buy computer equipment from Webhallen or Inet, two of Sweden's largest computer stores. Or buy games, porn or similar. > but then seems to misunderstand the most fundamental property - acceptability No, the properties don't change depending on how many use it. That's the functions of money, which you're right cryptocurrencied don't fair well in. For example gold was once an excellent medium of exchange, but it's not anymore as people has stopped accepting it for payments. Even if something is technically better, you don't replace the money quickly. The point is the potential, not that we're there today. > explain the value proposition of bitcoin without eventually it just boiling down to "well the value is going up so I'm hodling" The whole book is based on this premise and that cryptocurrencies are a better currency, and the volatility of Bitcoin is one of the biggest drawbacks. (Besides the ridiculous fees and the lack of privacy.) To simplify the value proposition is mainly twofold: * As a better means of payment as it's cheaper, faster and uncensorable. * As a form of money where nobody can manipulate the supply.
• FDSGSG 6y ago
  Bitcoin is an excellent currency for all sorts of illegal transactions. Buying or selling drugs online? Odds are you're using in bitcoin. Running a ransomware extortion scheme? Odds are you're using bitcoin for payments. Running an international wire fraud scheme? Odds are your drops are paying you in bitcoin.
  • mercurial_sucks 6y ago
    Patently false. It is one of the worst currencies for illegal transactions. The last place you want your illegal money to be is a public ledger. Maybe monero or another private currency would be more common with criminals
    • FDSGSG 6y ago
      Sure, Monero is technically better. But actual usage is what matters, and Monero doesn't have that. There's one DNM pushing Monero, nobody on cybercrime forums is using it. Ransomware operators have tried it, but usually shifted back to Bitcoin.
      • AlwaysBCoding 6y ago
        It's only an anecdote but I used to buy Adderall on Libertas, which was a Monero-only drug market, seemed to work pretty well and solved a real world problem for me.
        • FDSGSG 6y ago
          And Libertas ended up shutting down because their exotic tech choices drove away all the users. At least 90% of darknet trade happens using Bitcoin.
          • john117 6y ago
            Source on that 90%?
• staplers 6y ago
  There are plenty of explanations that you are willingly avoiding.
• cblconfederate 6y ago
  Half of science was created for fun
• neop1x 6y ago
  What is gold good for? Would you buy a cofee with it? Do you use it for chemical experiments at home? Majority of people don't need gold, either. Why do we trust fiat money? Why do we think that car or laptop is worth what it is?