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Out of the major developed countries, Britain is leading in vaccine distribution. In terms of infections, British numbers are on par with other European nations

Out of the major developed countries, Britain is leading in vaccine distribution. In terms of infections, British numbers are on par with other European nations when controlled by population. Where is this negativity coming from? From the outside, it looks like you're doing something right.

Wintamute 6y ago
I commented on this phenomenon last month. As true then as it is now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275252
- KaiserPro 6y ago
  I don't think this is fair. There is trust in the British people/buisness, then there is trust in the government As a _people_ we have worked together to do wonderful things. The government has done one good thing, and one brilliant thing, and many many stupid things. The good thing is job support. Its not perfect, but its almost at a par with the wider continent. The brilliant thing is taking a risk with the various vaccines. Paying for doses regardless of outcome makes sense. The cost of the unused doses/useless doses is nothing compared to the loss of 1 million jobs. But. The lifting of the second lockdown. The in inability to monitor isolation, the inability of the tracing infrastructure to predict winter. The sheer vindictiveness of the late third lockdown. 40% of all deaths happened because Boris wanted to "save" Christmas. He couldn't stomach the decision to cancel it, even though it was obvious from october. He dithered, dithered and dithered until there was no choice. I can forgive the first lockdown lateness, we didn't know. Second lockdown not so much. Taking councils to court to force them to re-open schools even though the local hospitals were running at 190%, un-fucking-forgivable. I say this as someone who is vaguely right of (british) centre. In short, its not an embarrassment of being british. Nothing of the sort, I just wish that our political class would stop tarnishing our country by being so terminally shit.
  - matthewmacleod 6y ago
    Well yes, that's exactly it. We should all celebrate a vaccination program being effectively rolled out. It looks like the UK, including government, has handled this well. Credit where its due, etc. It's not a surprise that many of us were skeptical given the poor handling of so much else. But the UK government completely fucked its pandemic response overall and 100k people are dead. This is a terrible outcome, and I'm honestly kind of concerned that they'll get away with it in part because there will be so much collective loss of memory in the wake of a successful vaccination rollout.
- reedf1 6y ago
  I find it interesting that you perceive this as a recent phenomenon - rigorous cultural self-criticism almost seems like a culturally British trait from my perspective. Are you suggesting this is new?
goto11 6y ago
In terms of deaths per 100000, only Belgium and Slovenia is worse off than UK: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
honkdaddy 6y ago
The negativity is coming from those who are ideologically opposed to giving a Tory government credit where it's due.
iso1631 6y ago
Looking at western countries for population vaccinated as instructed and tested by the manufacturers Israel: 24% USA: 2.75% Denmark: 2.35% Slovenia: 2.05% Malta: 1.98% Italy: 1.87% and way down the bottom UK: 0.73%, just below Romainia.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  I don't know where you're getting the numbers from, but I'm seeing something different: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
  - maxerickson 6y ago
    They are criticizing the delay in administering the second doses.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    From that very site "What share of the population has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19?" The UK has decided to skip the second dose, which wasn't tested and wasn't recommended by the manufacturers. It's a massive gamble.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      The news suggests they are delaying the second dose, or at least strategising. If there isn't enough vaccine to go around (which there isn't) giving people the recommended 2nd dose is also a gamble. > The UK’s strategy to delay the second dose of both ... vaccines is so that more people can be vaccinated with their first dose rather than giving a smaller number of people both doses. The hope is that this will save more lives -- https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-stra... Do you think the advantage of the 1st vaccine is less than that of the 2nd? i.e that it is better to have 1 person with the recommended 2 vaccines, and another with no vaccinations; versus, two people with only the first vaccination.
matthewmacleod 6y ago
The UK has suffered more deaths—controlled for population—than almost any other country. Overall, management of the pandemic was extremely poorly handled – we had multiple ridiculous decisions, taken purely for political reasons, that resulted in thousands of unnecessary deaths and caused further economic damage. In my area, I was personally under four different sets of restrictions in a 12-day period and nobody had a fucking clue what was happening. Given this, I think there is widespread surprise that the vaccine rollout in the UK has been well-handled – because it has. Many of us were genuinely expecting the other shoe to drop, but fortunately good decisions have been taken and this should be celebrated.
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >The UK has suffered more deaths—controlled for population—than almost any other country. Are there any confounding factors that need to be controlled for? Like different viral strains, climates, population densities and centers, testing strategies, data gathering methodologies (e.g. how the dead are counted as 'COVID' cases), population age distributions. Are you sure you're doing apples-to-apples comparison?
  - matthewmacleod 6y ago
    Are there any confounding factors that need to be controlled for? Yes, definitely. Are they likely to knock the UK from "almost worst in the whole world" to "did a good job"? Nae chance.
Chris2048 6y ago
> Where is this negativity coming from? There will always be at least some from EU promoters, the vaccine saga is the first to contradict some of the "better together" rhetoric against Brexit. Just look at the vaccine distribution BS; Factory raids, export laws..
michaelt 6y ago
> Where is this negativity coming from? In order to promote compliance with the lockdown, we're on a 24/7 diet of bad news. > British numbers are on par with other European nations when controlled by population. According to [1], per capita the UK has 2x as many deaths as Germany, 3x as many as Canada and 33x as many as Japan. We've even got 20% more than America. Admittedly part of that is differences in reporting standards, population ages, and the chance occurrence of new variants - but I don't think anyone will be taking the British response as a model in the future. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105
- macspoofing 6y ago
  >According to [1], per capita the UK has 2x as many deaths as Germany, 3x as many as Canada and 33x as many as Japan. We've even got 20% more than America. Are you cherry picking numbers that you like? Because you're cherry picking numbers that you like. UK is about average compared to developed countries. The per capita deaths are not out of line with the rest of the developed world. Yes, this also means there are countries that did better. There are countries that did worse. You also ignored the vaccination rate, of which UK is a leading nation. Why do people feel the need to be negative on this point and single out UK when every country is struggling with COVID. In the US, California has been under a near total lockout and is about the same or worse compared to states like Texas or Florida. There are no easy answers, and I'm not sure if lockdowns are worth the cost, given the spread that we're seeing. >Admittedly part of that is differences in reporting standards, population ages, and the chance occurrence of new variants Yes.
  - michaelt 6y ago
    > Are you cherry picking numbers that you like? Because you're cherry picking numbers that you like. Believe me, I would like nothing better than to report the UK's response had been good. But if I'd quoted the reported death rates from China and Russia you'd have claimed they were dodgy numbers from dodgy governments; if I'd quoted numbers for Australia and New Zealand you'd have claimed I'd cherry picked remote island nations; if I'd quoted numbers for Taiwan and South Korea you'd have claimed I'd cherry picked countries with SARS experience, and if I'd quoted numbers for Kenya and Iraq you'd have claimed they have young populations and limited testing facilities. Every single one of those countries has less than half the deaths per capita the UK has, according to that BBC map. > Why do people feel the need to be negative What you consider "being negative" is what I call acknowledging factual reality. When you claim that British numbers are on par with other European nations per-capita, and you offer no citations, then I look at the numbers and I see that we've got twice the deaths per capita of Ireland and Germany, of course I disagree with you.
gadders 6y ago
I would suspect that it is mostly politically motivated by people who are convinced that a Conservative government can never do anything right.

Wintamute 6y ago

I commented on this phenomenon last month. As true then as it is now. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25275252

KaiserPro 6y ago
I don't think this is fair. There is trust in the British people/buisness, then there is trust in the government As a _people_ we have worked together to do wonderful things. The government has done one good thing, and one brilliant thing, and many many stupid things. The good thing is job support. Its not perfect, but its almost at a par with the wider continent. The brilliant thing is taking a risk with the various vaccines. Paying for doses regardless of outcome makes sense. The cost of the unused doses/useless doses is nothing compared to the loss of 1 million jobs. But. The lifting of the second lockdown. The in inability to monitor isolation, the inability of the tracing infrastructure to predict winter. The sheer vindictiveness of the late third lockdown. 40% of all deaths happened because Boris wanted to "save" Christmas. He couldn't stomach the decision to cancel it, even though it was obvious from october. He dithered, dithered and dithered until there was no choice. I can forgive the first lockdown lateness, we didn't know. Second lockdown not so much. Taking councils to court to force them to re-open schools even though the local hospitals were running at 190%, un-fucking-forgivable. I say this as someone who is vaguely right of (british) centre. In short, its not an embarrassment of being british. Nothing of the sort, I just wish that our political class would stop tarnishing our country by being so terminally shit.
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  Well yes, that's exactly it. We should all celebrate a vaccination program being effectively rolled out. It looks like the UK, including government, has handled this well. Credit where its due, etc. It's not a surprise that many of us were skeptical given the poor handling of so much else. But the UK government completely fucked its pandemic response overall and 100k people are dead. This is a terrible outcome, and I'm honestly kind of concerned that they'll get away with it in part because there will be so much collective loss of memory in the wake of a successful vaccination rollout.
reedf1 6y ago
I find it interesting that you perceive this as a recent phenomenon - rigorous cultural self-criticism almost seems like a culturally British trait from my perspective. Are you suggesting this is new?

goto11 6y ago

In terms of deaths per 100000, only Belgium and Slovenia is worse off than UK: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

honkdaddy 6y ago

The negativity is coming from those who are ideologically opposed to giving a Tory government credit where it's due.

iso1631 6y ago

Looking at western countries for population vaccinated as instructed and tested by the manufacturers Israel: 24% USA: 2.75% Denmark: 2.35% Slovenia: 2.05% Malta: 1.98% Italy: 1.87% and way down the bottom UK: 0.73%, just below Romainia.

macspoofing 6y ago
I don't know where you're getting the numbers from, but I'm seeing something different: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
- maxerickson 6y ago
  They are criticizing the delay in administering the second doses.
- iso1631 6y ago
  From that very site "What share of the population has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19?" The UK has decided to skip the second dose, which wasn't tested and wasn't recommended by the manufacturers. It's a massive gamble.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    The news suggests they are delaying the second dose, or at least strategising. If there isn't enough vaccine to go around (which there isn't) giving people the recommended 2nd dose is also a gamble. > The UK’s strategy to delay the second dose of both ... vaccines is so that more people can be vaccinated with their first dose rather than giving a smaller number of people both doses. The hope is that this will save more lives -- https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-strategy-for-delaying-the-second-dose-of-the-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/20/revisiting-the-uks-stra... Do you think the advantage of the 1st vaccine is less than that of the 2nd? i.e that it is better to have 1 person with the recommended 2 vaccines, and another with no vaccinations; versus, two people with only the first vaccination.

matthewmacleod 6y ago

The UK has suffered more deaths—controlled for population—than almost any other country. Overall, management of the pandemic was extremely poorly handled – we had multiple ridiculous decisions, taken purely for political reasons, that resulted in thousands of unnecessary deaths and caused further economic damage. In my area, I was personally under four different sets of restrictions in a 12-day period and nobody had a fucking clue what was happening. Given this, I think there is widespread surprise that the vaccine rollout in the UK has been well-handled – because it has. Many of us were genuinely expecting the other shoe to drop, but fortunately good decisions have been taken and this should be celebrated.

macspoofing 6y ago
>The UK has suffered more deaths—controlled for population—than almost any other country. Are there any confounding factors that need to be controlled for? Like different viral strains, climates, population densities and centers, testing strategies, data gathering methodologies (e.g. how the dead are counted as 'COVID' cases), population age distributions. Are you sure you're doing apples-to-apples comparison?
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  Are there any confounding factors that need to be controlled for? Yes, definitely. Are they likely to knock the UK from "almost worst in the whole world" to "did a good job"? Nae chance.

Chris2048 6y ago

> Where is this negativity coming from? There will always be at least some from EU promoters, the vaccine saga is the first to contradict some of the "better together" rhetoric against Brexit. Just look at the vaccine distribution BS; Factory raids, export laws..

michaelt 6y ago

> Where is this negativity coming from? In order to promote compliance with the lockdown, we're on a 24/7 diet of bad news. > British numbers are on par with other European nations when controlled by population. According to [1], per capita the UK has 2x as many deaths as Germany, 3x as many as Canada and 33x as many as Japan. We've even got 20% more than America. Admittedly part of that is differences in reporting standards, population ages, and the chance occurrence of new variants - but I don't think anyone will be taking the British response as a model in the future. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-51235105

macspoofing 6y ago
>According to [1], per capita the UK has 2x as many deaths as Germany, 3x as many as Canada and 33x as many as Japan. We've even got 20% more than America. Are you cherry picking numbers that you like? Because you're cherry picking numbers that you like. UK is about average compared to developed countries. The per capita deaths are not out of line with the rest of the developed world. Yes, this also means there are countries that did better. There are countries that did worse. You also ignored the vaccination rate, of which UK is a leading nation. Why do people feel the need to be negative on this point and single out UK when every country is struggling with COVID. In the US, California has been under a near total lockout and is about the same or worse compared to states like Texas or Florida. There are no easy answers, and I'm not sure if lockdowns are worth the cost, given the spread that we're seeing. >Admittedly part of that is differences in reporting standards, population ages, and the chance occurrence of new variants Yes.
- michaelt 6y ago
  > Are you cherry picking numbers that you like? Because you're cherry picking numbers that you like. Believe me, I would like nothing better than to report the UK's response had been good. But if I'd quoted the reported death rates from China and Russia you'd have claimed they were dodgy numbers from dodgy governments; if I'd quoted numbers for Australia and New Zealand you'd have claimed I'd cherry picked remote island nations; if I'd quoted numbers for Taiwan and South Korea you'd have claimed I'd cherry picked countries with SARS experience, and if I'd quoted numbers for Kenya and Iraq you'd have claimed they have young populations and limited testing facilities. Every single one of those countries has less than half the deaths per capita the UK has, according to that BBC map. > Why do people feel the need to be negative What you consider "being negative" is what I call acknowledging factual reality. When you claim that British numbers are on par with other European nations per-capita, and you offer no citations, then I look at the numbers and I see that we've got twice the deaths per capita of Ireland and Germany, of course I disagree with you.

gadders 6y ago

I would suspect that it is mostly politically motivated by people who are convinced that a Conservative government can never do anything right.