4 ms·

> The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. There is good reason to believe it will be efficient on older people, but efficiency for

> The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. There is good reason to believe it will be efficient on older people, but efficiency for elderly hasn't been proven. > Also funny, the AZ contract is the only one that leaked. It wasn't leaked, the EU and AZ agreed to publish it. And it is also not the only one that was published. The CureVac contract was also published.

hef19898 6y ago
Thr initial claim I am aware of came from a German newspaper, Bild (the Handelsblatt was quick with it as well, not sure which newspaper was first). That claim was "AZ only 8% efficient with patients over 60 (or 65, don't remember that with all the figures thrown around)". That claim was false, as the 8% related to the number of trial patients. That claim came from the German Ministry of Health, "informed circles". Only after that AZ clarified what the 8% really mean. And yes, efficiency is not yet proven. Unproven efficiency is quite a different thing from a claimed 8% efficiency so. I see a real pro Biontech and anti AZ campaign going on in the German media. One that is quite welcome, as it allows politicians to deflect blame. Brexit helps to mud the waters even further. Don't forget, we have elections in Germany this year. As far as I know, the AZ contract is the only one with additional uncensored parts that was published. AZ is in the defensive now. For no real reasons. And over this discussion, in the EU and also in SA it seems, we totally miss the importance of a smooth vaccination campaign. And the lacking preparation thereof.
- easytiger 6y ago
  Not to mention that President Macron came out with some genuinely anti vaxer statements on 29th Jan which are completely false > “The real problem with AstraZeneca is that it doesn't perform as we expected. (…) Everything suggests that it is almost ineffective on people over 65. " Anyone who has paid attention to the response around the failure of the EU vaccination program knows this is pretty standard diversionary politics.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    I honestly believed, my optimism outpacing my zynism obviously, that authorities learned from, IMHO excusable, communications fuck-up regarding masks last year. This one is worse, way worse. The only way vaccinations will work on scale will be to have vaccines that can be handled by every doctors practice. They are vaccinating million sof people already every year, they have the supply chain in place and the people. I for my part am not counting on vaccination centers and central appointment booking.
- em500 6y ago
  Here's is the EMA summary (I believe the full assessment report is not yet public): https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-authorisation-eu https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-va... Key snippet: Most of the participants in these studies were between 18 and 55 years old. There are not yet enough results in older participants (over 55 years old) to provide a figure for how well the vaccine will work in this group. However, protection is expected, given that an immune response is seen in this age group and based on experience with other vaccines; as there is reliable information on safety in this population, EMA’s scientific experts considered that the vaccine can be used in older adults. More information is expected from ongoing studies, which include a higher proportion of elderly participants. I'd assume the EMA's assessment is based on AZ's data and application, rather than on reports from German newspapers or politicians. We can probably all agree with the EMA's assessment that AZ's effectiveness for the elderly is likely but not convincingly demonstrated yet. Based on this it's reasonable for different national EU agencies to give different recommendations for application to the elderly. For instance, in the Netherlands national agency recommends using Pfifer / Moderna for the 65+ and AZ for 65-.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Yeah, me too. Not the public at large so. And public opinion is driving political decisions, especially in a year packed with elections.

hef19898 6y ago

Thr initial claim I am aware of came from a German newspaper, Bild (the Handelsblatt was quick with it as well, not sure which newspaper was first). That claim was "AZ only 8% efficient with patients over 60 (or 65, don't remember that with all the figures thrown around)". That claim was false, as the 8% related to the number of trial patients. That claim came from the German Ministry of Health, "informed circles". Only after that AZ clarified what the 8% really mean. And yes, efficiency is not yet proven. Unproven efficiency is quite a different thing from a claimed 8% efficiency so. I see a real pro Biontech and anti AZ campaign going on in the German media. One that is quite welcome, as it allows politicians to deflect blame. Brexit helps to mud the waters even further. Don't forget, we have elections in Germany this year. As far as I know, the AZ contract is the only one with additional uncensored parts that was published. AZ is in the defensive now. For no real reasons. And over this discussion, in the EU and also in SA it seems, we totally miss the importance of a smooth vaccination campaign. And the lacking preparation thereof.

easytiger 6y ago
Not to mention that President Macron came out with some genuinely anti vaxer statements on 29th Jan which are completely false > “The real problem with AstraZeneca is that it doesn't perform as we expected. (…) Everything suggests that it is almost ineffective on people over 65. " Anyone who has paid attention to the response around the failure of the EU vaccination program knows this is pretty standard diversionary politics.
- hef19898 6y ago
  I honestly believed, my optimism outpacing my zynism obviously, that authorities learned from, IMHO excusable, communications fuck-up regarding masks last year. This one is worse, way worse. The only way vaccinations will work on scale will be to have vaccines that can be handled by every doctors practice. They are vaccinating million sof people already every year, they have the supply chain in place and the people. I for my part am not counting on vaccination centers and central appointment booking.
em500 6y ago
Here's is the EMA summary (I believe the full assessment report is not yet public): https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-authorisation-eu https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-va... Key snippet: Most of the participants in these studies were between 18 and 55 years old. There are not yet enough results in older participants (over 55 years old) to provide a figure for how well the vaccine will work in this group. However, protection is expected, given that an immune response is seen in this age group and based on experience with other vaccines; as there is reliable information on safety in this population, EMA’s scientific experts considered that the vaccine can be used in older adults. More information is expected from ongoing studies, which include a higher proportion of elderly participants. I'd assume the EMA's assessment is based on AZ's data and application, rather than on reports from German newspapers or politicians. We can probably all agree with the EMA's assessment that AZ's effectiveness for the elderly is likely but not convincingly demonstrated yet. Based on this it's reasonable for different national EU agencies to give different recommendations for application to the elderly. For instance, in the Netherlands national agency recommends using Pfifer / Moderna for the 65+ and AZ for 65-.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Yeah, me too. Not the public at large so. And public opinion is driving political decisions, especially in a year packed with elections.