4 ms·

EU will probably follow suit and ban AstraZeneca. in many EU countries is restricted to under 55

easytiger 6y ago
Based on fake news and a campaign against it to deflect from EU commission failure around vaccine roll out. I see it is working.
- hef19898 6y ago
  Yeah, it seems like it. The only real issue the AZ vaccine seems to have is the South African mutation. The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. Intentionally leaked by the German ministry of health by the looks of it. That claim was debunked, and it still got a hold on things. The press is still pushing it to some degree. Would be interesting to see the motive behind all that. Also funny, the AZ contract is the only one that leaked. And they are by no means the only one to face production ramp up issues. Biontech is getting the opposite reporting in Germany. That is somewhat puzzling. EDIT: The South African strain seems to be a challenge, the Novavax and J&J vaccines are also less effective (source:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/two-new-covid-vaccines-work-worse-against-south-african-strain https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/two-new-covid-...).
  - _fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
    > The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. There is good reason to believe it will be efficient on older people, but efficiency for elderly hasn't been proven. > Also funny, the AZ contract is the only one that leaked. It wasn't leaked, the EU and AZ agreed to publish it. And it is also not the only one that was published. The CureVac contract was also published.
    - hef19898 6y ago
      Thr initial claim I am aware of came from a German newspaper, Bild (the Handelsblatt was quick with it as well, not sure which newspaper was first). That claim was "AZ only 8% efficient with patients over 60 (or 65, don't remember that with all the figures thrown around)". That claim was false, as the 8% related to the number of trial patients. That claim came from the German Ministry of Health, "informed circles". Only after that AZ clarified what the 8% really mean. And yes, efficiency is not yet proven. Unproven efficiency is quite a different thing from a claimed 8% efficiency so. I see a real pro Biontech and anti AZ campaign going on in the German media. One that is quite welcome, as it allows politicians to deflect blame. Brexit helps to mud the waters even further. Don't forget, we have elections in Germany this year. As far as I know, the AZ contract is the only one with additional uncensored parts that was published. AZ is in the defensive now. For no real reasons. And over this discussion, in the EU and also in SA it seems, we totally miss the importance of a smooth vaccination campaign. And the lacking preparation thereof.
      - easytiger 6y ago
        Not to mention that President Macron came out with some genuinely anti vaxer statements on 29th Jan which are completely false > “The real problem with AstraZeneca is that it doesn't perform as we expected. (…) Everything suggests that it is almost ineffective on people over 65. " Anyone who has paid attention to the response around the failure of the EU vaccination program knows this is pretty standard diversionary politics.
        hef19898 6y ago
        I honestly believed, my optimism outpacing my zynism obviously, that authorities learned from, IMHO excusable, communications fuck-up regarding masks last year. This one is worse, way worse. The only way vaccinations will work on scale will be to have vaccines that can be handled by every doctors practice. They are vaccinating million sof people already every year, they have the supply chain in place and the people. I for my part am not counting on vaccination centers and central appointment booking.
      - em500 6y ago
- konschubert 6y ago
  Not agreeing/disagreeing on the misinformation, but regarding the failure: The EU negotiated badly, and AZ used that to fool them. I think AZ deserves some moral blame here as well.
  - billyruffian 6y ago
    The Belgian investigation into the production facility with the manufacturing problem: what did it evidence? I'm curious because I've not come across what the result was or if there was any evidence of dissembling from AZ.
    - martinald 6y ago
      They also checked the customs forms, but we didn't hear anything (to my knowledge after). The head of the UKs vaccine taskforce also said she thought it was very unlikely that AZ vaccines were shipped from the EU to the UK (this makes sense, how would you ship them if those factories are not up to speed yet?).
  - goto11 6y ago
    As I understand the conflict: EU negotiated a lower price than UK, but both parties got contracts guaranteeing a certain number of doses. When AstraZeneca got production problems which meant they couldn't fulfill all the promised deliveries, they decided to fully honor the UK contract and cut delivery to EU severely. This infuriated the EU, and they threatened blocking export of the vaccines produced in the EU. More fun if it turns out the AstraZeneca vaccine is useless.
    - martinald 6y ago
      Where do you get this idea that contracts guaranteed a certain number of deliveries? The contract the EU signed said best effort everywhere. Why would AZ agree to a contract to guarantee certain deliveries on a brand new vaccine with unproven manufacturing, on a non-profit basis? It doesn't make any sense. The other thing which isn't mentioned is the UK's deliveries were also cut, probably even more severely than the EU ones. The UK was originally meant to get many tens of millions of doses by the end of 2020, in reality it was far far less.
- Mvandenbergh 6y ago
  As a European, I am much angrier about the politically driven and scientifically inaccurate comments to this effect and the damage it will have on this and other vaccination programs long term than I am about the EC's slowness in procurement. What is Macron going to do when he gets loads of this vaccine in Q3? "Never mind that stuff about it not working, please go get vaccinated?". It's Trump level (remember that guy) irresponsibility.
  - easytiger 6y ago
    > What is Macron going to do when he gets loads of this vaccine in Q3? "Never mind that stuff about it not working, please go get vaccinated?". It's Trump level (remember that guy) irresponsibility. Macron should be piloried for his antivaxxer comments. France has a serious issue with people refusing the vaccine as it is. Not helped by their deliberately complex steps to give it out.

Based on fake news and a campaign against it to deflect from EU commission failure around vaccine roll out. I see it is working.

hef19898 6y ago
Yeah, it seems like it. The only real issue the AZ vaccine seems to have is the South African mutation. The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. Intentionally leaked by the German ministry of health by the looks of it. That claim was debunked, and it still got a hold on things. The press is still pushing it to some degree. Would be interesting to see the motive behind all that. Also funny, the AZ contract is the only one that leaked. And they are by no means the only one to face production ramp up issues. Biontech is getting the opposite reporting in Germany. That is somewhat puzzling. EDIT: The South African strain seems to be a challenge, the Novavax and J&J vaccines are also less effective (source:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/two-new-covid-vaccines-work-worse-against-south-african-strain https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/30/two-new-covid-...).
- _fizz_buzz_ 6y ago
  > The other so called "issues", efficiency for elderly, is just fake. There is good reason to believe it will be efficient on older people, but efficiency for elderly hasn't been proven. > Also funny, the AZ contract is the only one that leaked. It wasn't leaked, the EU and AZ agreed to publish it. And it is also not the only one that was published. The CureVac contract was also published.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    Thr initial claim I am aware of came from a German newspaper, Bild (the Handelsblatt was quick with it as well, not sure which newspaper was first). That claim was "AZ only 8% efficient with patients over 60 (or 65, don't remember that with all the figures thrown around)". That claim was false, as the 8% related to the number of trial patients. That claim came from the German Ministry of Health, "informed circles". Only after that AZ clarified what the 8% really mean. And yes, efficiency is not yet proven. Unproven efficiency is quite a different thing from a claimed 8% efficiency so. I see a real pro Biontech and anti AZ campaign going on in the German media. One that is quite welcome, as it allows politicians to deflect blame. Brexit helps to mud the waters even further. Don't forget, we have elections in Germany this year. As far as I know, the AZ contract is the only one with additional uncensored parts that was published. AZ is in the defensive now. For no real reasons. And over this discussion, in the EU and also in SA it seems, we totally miss the importance of a smooth vaccination campaign. And the lacking preparation thereof.
    - easytiger 6y ago
      Not to mention that President Macron came out with some genuinely anti vaxer statements on 29th Jan which are completely false > “The real problem with AstraZeneca is that it doesn't perform as we expected. (…) Everything suggests that it is almost ineffective on people over 65. " Anyone who has paid attention to the response around the failure of the EU vaccination program knows this is pretty standard diversionary politics.
      - hef19898 6y ago
        I honestly believed, my optimism outpacing my zynism obviously, that authorities learned from, IMHO excusable, communications fuck-up regarding masks last year. This one is worse, way worse. The only way vaccinations will work on scale will be to have vaccines that can be handled by every doctors practice. They are vaccinating million sof people already every year, they have the supply chain in place and the people. I for my part am not counting on vaccination centers and central appointment booking.
    - em500 6y ago
konschubert 6y ago
Not agreeing/disagreeing on the misinformation, but regarding the failure: The EU negotiated badly, and AZ used that to fool them. I think AZ deserves some moral blame here as well.
- billyruffian 6y ago
  The Belgian investigation into the production facility with the manufacturing problem: what did it evidence? I'm curious because I've not come across what the result was or if there was any evidence of dissembling from AZ.
  - martinald 6y ago
    They also checked the customs forms, but we didn't hear anything (to my knowledge after). The head of the UKs vaccine taskforce also said she thought it was very unlikely that AZ vaccines were shipped from the EU to the UK (this makes sense, how would you ship them if those factories are not up to speed yet?).
- goto11 6y ago
  As I understand the conflict: EU negotiated a lower price than UK, but both parties got contracts guaranteeing a certain number of doses. When AstraZeneca got production problems which meant they couldn't fulfill all the promised deliveries, they decided to fully honor the UK contract and cut delivery to EU severely. This infuriated the EU, and they threatened blocking export of the vaccines produced in the EU. More fun if it turns out the AstraZeneca vaccine is useless.
  - martinald 6y ago
    Where do you get this idea that contracts guaranteed a certain number of deliveries? The contract the EU signed said best effort everywhere. Why would AZ agree to a contract to guarantee certain deliveries on a brand new vaccine with unproven manufacturing, on a non-profit basis? It doesn't make any sense. The other thing which isn't mentioned is the UK's deliveries were also cut, probably even more severely than the EU ones. The UK was originally meant to get many tens of millions of doses by the end of 2020, in reality it was far far less.
Mvandenbergh 6y ago
As a European, I am much angrier about the politically driven and scientifically inaccurate comments to this effect and the damage it will have on this and other vaccination programs long term than I am about the EC's slowness in procurement. What is Macron going to do when he gets loads of this vaccine in Q3? "Never mind that stuff about it not working, please go get vaccinated?". It's Trump level (remember that guy) irresponsibility.
- easytiger 6y ago
  > What is Macron going to do when he gets loads of this vaccine in Q3? "Never mind that stuff about it not working, please go get vaccinated?". It's Trump level (remember that guy) irresponsibility. Macron should be piloried for his antivaxxer comments. France has a serious issue with people refusing the vaccine as it is. Not helped by their deliberately complex steps to give it out.