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About the Euronews link, I disagree with your conclusion. The mentioned laws are just red tape (for an explanation see my reply to pacaro here). The hard limits

by nsajko 6y ago

About the Euronews link, I disagree with your conclusion. The mentioned laws are just red tape (for an explanation see my reply to pacaro here). The hard limits on BMI seem to come from industry self-regulation.

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Let's assume that be the case. The politicians allow this nonsensical, pseudoscientific self-regulation instead of demanding that they switch to b.f.p., because they know well that it would outlaw body builders, which they do not want, despite their being as unhealthy. The industry came up with this method, of course, to allow bodybuilders to continue, and only having to cull the the hyperthin. It's a nice unspoken understanding between them that enables both to place the blame on the other. If the industry had found such a clever way to allow the hyperthin to still continue, one could be certain of that the politicians would step in to order a halt to it.
- nsajko 6y ago
  I think you're hugely overestimating the politicians here, I doubt that even a significant proportion gives much thought to these issues ;)
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    And thought woud suddenly be given if the industry's self-regulation found a way to permit the models they want to ban because they think them too ugly. Indeed, not much thought was given: they found certain models to look ugly because they were hyperthin, so they instinctively searched for a rationalization to ban them and selling it as something other than social control, and “health” is very often the first excuse to be reached for then.
- watwut 6y ago
  Nah. Bodybuilders are fat by mbi. BMI is or was used also in context that where it literally harmed bodybuilders - by BMI they are fat. Politicians doing these decisions dont go too deep. BMI is widely know, easy to calculate metric everybody knows. And that is all there is to it.
  - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
    But the politicians aren't banning overweight models, only underweight models. I'm sure these same politicians have medical advisors, who advised them against using b.m.i. and also pointed out what I said here.
    - watwut 6y ago
      > I'm sure these same politicians have medical advisors, who advised them against using b.m.i. and also pointed out what I said here. Body builders, especially female body builders were completely irrelevant to discussion about fashion models. They were not the ones who were ever shown in those magazines. In terms of body shape, they are not actually thin despite having low fat. Female body builders are not contemporary beauty standard and never were.
      - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
        And why do you suddenly bring gender politics into an issue that never had them? Many magazines feature body builders, whatever their sex be, that have a body fat percentage that is very unhealthy and were it not for the muscles to move their mass up, the fat percentage alone would give them a rather low b.m.i. if they had average muscles. I do not see how their sex is relevant for the politician's stated goal of promoting health. If their desire would be to only promote female health, male health be damned, then they should have said so, which they obviously never did, as that would raise quite the eyebrows. But their real desire was, as said, simply to ban models whom they find particularly ugly, and “health” is simply an excuse, as it often is. — the very same reason why arbitrarily alcohol is quite legal in many jurisdictions where other drugs are banned for “health concerns”. So many unhealthy things are perfectly legal almost everywhere that I find any politician who claims to do it for the health dubious by default. — it is nothing more than a rationalization to justify his moral and fashion control.

by nsajko 6y ago

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

Let's assume that be the case. The politicians allow this nonsensical, pseudoscientific self-regulation instead of demanding that they switch to b.f.p., because they know well that it would outlaw body builders, which they do not want, despite their being as unhealthy. The industry came up with this method, of course, to allow bodybuilders to continue, and only having to cull the the hyperthin. It's a nice unspoken understanding between them that enables both to place the blame on the other. If the industry had found such a clever way to allow the hyperthin to still continue, one could be certain of that the politicians would step in to order a halt to it.

nsajko 6y ago
I think you're hugely overestimating the politicians here, I doubt that even a significant proportion gives much thought to these issues ;)
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  And thought woud suddenly be given if the industry's self-regulation found a way to permit the models they want to ban because they think them too ugly. Indeed, not much thought was given: they found certain models to look ugly because they were hyperthin, so they instinctively searched for a rationalization to ban them and selling it as something other than social control, and “health” is very often the first excuse to be reached for then.
watwut 6y ago
Nah. Bodybuilders are fat by mbi. BMI is or was used also in context that where it literally harmed bodybuilders - by BMI they are fat. Politicians doing these decisions dont go too deep. BMI is widely know, easy to calculate metric everybody knows. And that is all there is to it.
- Blikkentrekker 6y ago
  But the politicians aren't banning overweight models, only underweight models. I'm sure these same politicians have medical advisors, who advised them against using b.m.i. and also pointed out what I said here.
  - watwut 6y ago
    > I'm sure these same politicians have medical advisors, who advised them against using b.m.i. and also pointed out what I said here. Body builders, especially female body builders were completely irrelevant to discussion about fashion models. They were not the ones who were ever shown in those magazines. In terms of body shape, they are not actually thin despite having low fat. Female body builders are not contemporary beauty standard and never were.
    - Blikkentrekker 6y ago
      And why do you suddenly bring gender politics into an issue that never had them? Many magazines feature body builders, whatever their sex be, that have a body fat percentage that is very unhealthy and were it not for the muscles to move their mass up, the fat percentage alone would give them a rather low b.m.i. if they had average muscles. I do not see how their sex is relevant for the politician's stated goal of promoting health. If their desire would be to only promote female health, male health be damned, then they should have said so, which they obviously never did, as that would raise quite the eyebrows. But their real desire was, as said, simply to ban models whom they find particularly ugly, and “health” is simply an excuse, as it often is. — the very same reason why arbitrarily alcohol is quite legal in many jurisdictions where other drugs are banned for “health concerns”. So many unhealthy things are perfectly legal almost everywhere that I find any politician who claims to do it for the health dubious by default. — it is nothing more than a rationalization to justify his moral and fashion control.