4 ms·

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effec

by boulos 6y ago

If there's anyone out there that has read the trilogy in both the original Mandarin as well as the English translations, I'd love to get their take on the effect of translation. If I remember correctly, I found The Three Body Problem super pleasant to read and engaging. By contrast, I liked the idea of Dark Forest but found it almost painful to read. The chapters were strangely broken up (some extremely long, etc.) and so on. Back to Death's End and the "writing" improved again. So was it the swap of the translators? Is Ken Liu's translation for Books 1 and 3 just more amenable to my western sensibility, or is Book 2 really just quite different, even in the original?

Elaine-H 6y ago
I read the trilogy in Chinese but only the first book in English. The original Dark Forest is perfectly fine. Many people suggested it has the best storytelling among the three. 1. Ken Liu is generally considered (by people who have read the trilogy in both languages) a better translator 2. the Dark Forest's structure does feel a little "literary" to me, which might make you felt "the chapters were strangely broken up". 3. I heard that they made many changes in the English version to meet "the political correctness of the western world", which might be another contributing factor of your painful read. (Liu Cixin on Joel Martinsen, 2015-04-19, https://m.newsmth.net/article/SF/370834 https://m.newsmth.net/article/SF/370834): --- here comes my blunt translation --- "Very reliable, Joel Martinsen's Chinese is very good, his Mandarin is better than mine, and he works hard and is very dedicated. There are more than 1000 modifications made in the English version of Dark Forest. The only problem is: he only goes to vegetarian restaurants. BTW, the modifications of Dark Forest have been just completed. There are more modifications compared to the first book, deleted everything related to Ball Lightning, one of the Wallfacer's strategy has been completely changed. Besides that, the editor of TOR is a Feminist and is very strict, sexual discriminations are recognized here and there. Example 1, when words such as "purity" and "angelic" used too often it becomes sexual discrimination, so their usage needs to be limited. Example 2, the secretary-general of the United Nations is a beauty is considered as sexual discrimination. Example 3, all Wallfacers are male is considered as sexual discrimination (but this hasn't been changed, I argued that all American presidents are male, though the editor argued that they will have a female president soon). These changes are a huge workload for me and Joel, very exhausting, but finally completed." --- translation ends --- Some context: - "Chinese" refers to the Chinese written language, which is universal across China, "Mandarin" refers to the official spoken language of China. Many people, including Liu Cixin, have accent when speaking Mandarin. That's why he said "Joel Martinsen's Chinese is very good, his Mandarin is better than mine". - the vegetarian part is just kidding - Ball Lightning is another popular science fiction from Liu Cixin
- logicchains 6y ago
  Shows the western world has really gone to shit when even an author from mainland China finds its thought policing exhausting. Phillip K. Dick would be rolling in his grave.
  - jhanschoo 6y ago
    Keep in mind that what an editor has in mind, you're trying to sell genre fiction that has certain genre expectations, and noticed deviations from the staple that readers notice ought to have meaning to them. Depending on the fiction the target audience grew up reading they may be sensitive to different tropes. e.g. it might be quite exhausting to read a novel with an overuse of "pure" and "angelic" in a most Anglophone societies where these words aren't that frequently used to describe friends and family.
    - jobigoud 6y ago
      Isn't that the point of reading foreign SF? I grew up in Western Europe in the 80's and loved reading Cold War era Soviet science fiction precisely because it was different.
      - Ruthalas 6y ago
        That was the express reason I chose to read these specific novels. Makes the changes more disappointing.
- boulos 6y ago
  Thanks! I don't think the political correctness or other changes would have really bothered me, it was much more about structure. IIRC, there were some "chapters" in Dark Forest that were... over an hour? In Chinese, does the third book also go back to a more ... narrative style? That is, did you consider the first and third books to be "similar in style" but Dark Forest to stand out? Thanks again! P.S. I struggled to decide between saying "Chinese" or Mandarin. I had thought there were also "word/regional differences" between Mandarin and Cantonese, not just pronunciation. Good to know that Chinese would have been correct!
elihu 6y ago
I had the same experience with the English versions; the first and third books were more pleasant to read. (I don't read Mandarin.) I attribute it to the translator, but would also be interested to know if there was a difference in the source material as well.
_henrywu 6y ago
I had the same experience just a few minutes in to Dark Forest. I immediately googled to see if anyone else was struggling with the translation or if it was just me. I found many passages difficult to get through, and I'd constantly realise I'd read an entire page without taking anything in. Book 3 and 4 where both much easier to read, and they were both translated by Ken Liu. (Haven't read the mandarin versions though)
- aaomidi 6y ago
  Coming off of the Area X trilogy, this book actually seemed much more understandable. Dozens of pages passed in some of the Area X books where nothing really happened.
steve_adams_86 6y ago
Likewise. The idea of the dark forest was exhilarating and got the mental gears turning like crazy. I hadn’t encountered this idea before and I expected really engaging content. The book was a bit of a slog, though. Still good without a doubt, just nowhere near as flowing and page-turning as the one before it. I went into the third book slightly worried it might have progressed further in that direction, but you’re right, it was a step back in the right direction.
free_rms 6y ago
Apparently the evil alien robot in book 3 is waaaaay more Japanese-sounding in the Mandarin version.
martin_balsam 6y ago
I think Ken Liu is a writer on his own right first, and a translator second. that might be part of the reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu

by boulos 6y ago

Elaine-H 6y ago

I read the trilogy in Chinese but only the first book in English. The original Dark Forest is perfectly fine. Many people suggested it has the best storytelling among the three. 1. Ken Liu is generally considered (by people who have read the trilogy in both languages) a better translator 2. the Dark Forest's structure does feel a little "literary" to me, which might make you felt "the chapters were strangely broken up". 3. I heard that they made many changes in the English version to meet "the political correctness of the western world", which might be another contributing factor of your painful read. (Liu Cixin on Joel Martinsen, 2015-04-19, https://m.newsmth.net/article/SF/370834 https://m.newsmth.net/article/SF/370834): --- here comes my blunt translation --- "Very reliable, Joel Martinsen's Chinese is very good, his Mandarin is better than mine, and he works hard and is very dedicated. There are more than 1000 modifications made in the English version of Dark Forest. The only problem is: he only goes to vegetarian restaurants. BTW, the modifications of Dark Forest have been just completed. There are more modifications compared to the first book, deleted everything related to Ball Lightning, one of the Wallfacer's strategy has been completely changed. Besides that, the editor of TOR is a Feminist and is very strict, sexual discriminations are recognized here and there. Example 1, when words such as "purity" and "angelic" used too often it becomes sexual discrimination, so their usage needs to be limited. Example 2, the secretary-general of the United Nations is a beauty is considered as sexual discrimination. Example 3, all Wallfacers are male is considered as sexual discrimination (but this hasn't been changed, I argued that all American presidents are male, though the editor argued that they will have a female president soon). These changes are a huge workload for me and Joel, very exhausting, but finally completed." --- translation ends --- Some context: - "Chinese" refers to the Chinese written language, which is universal across China, "Mandarin" refers to the official spoken language of China. Many people, including Liu Cixin, have accent when speaking Mandarin. That's why he said "Joel Martinsen's Chinese is very good, his Mandarin is better than mine". - the vegetarian part is just kidding - Ball Lightning is another popular science fiction from Liu Cixin

logicchains 6y ago
Shows the western world has really gone to shit when even an author from mainland China finds its thought policing exhausting. Phillip K. Dick would be rolling in his grave.
- jhanschoo 6y ago
  Keep in mind that what an editor has in mind, you're trying to sell genre fiction that has certain genre expectations, and noticed deviations from the staple that readers notice ought to have meaning to them. Depending on the fiction the target audience grew up reading they may be sensitive to different tropes. e.g. it might be quite exhausting to read a novel with an overuse of "pure" and "angelic" in a most Anglophone societies where these words aren't that frequently used to describe friends and family.
  - jobigoud 6y ago
    Isn't that the point of reading foreign SF? I grew up in Western Europe in the 80's and loved reading Cold War era Soviet science fiction precisely because it was different.
    - Ruthalas 6y ago
      That was the express reason I chose to read these specific novels. Makes the changes more disappointing.
boulos 6y ago
Thanks! I don't think the political correctness or other changes would have really bothered me, it was much more about structure. IIRC, there were some "chapters" in Dark Forest that were... over an hour? In Chinese, does the third book also go back to a more ... narrative style? That is, did you consider the first and third books to be "similar in style" but Dark Forest to stand out? Thanks again! P.S. I struggled to decide between saying "Chinese" or Mandarin. I had thought there were also "word/regional differences" between Mandarin and Cantonese, not just pronunciation. Good to know that Chinese would have been correct!

elihu 6y ago

I had the same experience with the English versions; the first and third books were more pleasant to read. (I don't read Mandarin.) I attribute it to the translator, but would also be interested to know if there was a difference in the source material as well.

_henrywu 6y ago

I had the same experience just a few minutes in to Dark Forest. I immediately googled to see if anyone else was struggling with the translation or if it was just me. I found many passages difficult to get through, and I'd constantly realise I'd read an entire page without taking anything in. Book 3 and 4 where both much easier to read, and they were both translated by Ken Liu. (Haven't read the mandarin versions though)

aaomidi 6y ago
Coming off of the Area X trilogy, this book actually seemed much more understandable. Dozens of pages passed in some of the Area X books where nothing really happened.

steve_adams_86 6y ago

Likewise. The idea of the dark forest was exhilarating and got the mental gears turning like crazy. I hadn’t encountered this idea before and I expected really engaging content. The book was a bit of a slog, though. Still good without a doubt, just nowhere near as flowing and page-turning as the one before it. I went into the third book slightly worried it might have progressed further in that direction, but you’re right, it was a step back in the right direction.

free_rms 6y ago

Apparently the evil alien robot in book 3 is waaaaay more Japanese-sounding in the Mandarin version.

martin_balsam 6y ago

I think Ken Liu is a writer on his own right first, and a translator second. that might be part of the reason https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Liu