3 ms·

I find a similar worrying trend in Software Engineering. Criticisms are often supressed [1], people are afraid of saying anything negative to "offend" someone,

I find a similar worrying trend in Software Engineering. Criticisms are often supressed [1], people are afraid of saying anything negative to "offend" someone, right-to-be-offended is rampant and often go unchecked and it's sending chilling effects in social media, Github, work places, forums, and slack channels. When we used to meet in person to discuss, there is a level of courtesy and acceptance of dissent as a matter of intellectual discourse, this is being eroded in front of our eyes. Online discussions in the past weren't so gamified as things are today. On Github, saying something across the grain or against it can lead to public shaming - all beautifully souped up for public consumption in the form of 31 downvotes, emojified, recorded and attached to someone's name. Now, that person will perhaps think twice before saying something negative ever again, silenced and rejected by the public previously. Email mailing lists are far superior in arguing about a point than Github. Makes me furious just thinking about how shitty we have become. It's getting worse everyday. If you think that these people are just "assholes and always complain"; we have a mechanism for people who are truly assholes - be tolerant and ignore them. Folks, it's time to ditch the 'Emoji Casino' for any sort of serious intellectual discourse. That includes Github and anything that's "social". One should be judged by the merit of their words and thoughts, not statistics and concensus. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25991563 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25991563

brailsafe 6y ago
When I was 22, I thought my criticism was very important. A few years later, I often find it overwhelmingly detracts more than it helps. Critique ahould be differentiated, in that there's a much better chance that you're actually contributing, rather than just being perceived as trying to draw attention to yourself. The less you tell people they're doing something bad, with no substantial addition, the less you'll be perceived as an asshole and the more will get done.
gwilikers 6y ago
Reading this, all I can think is that you are just asking for everyone to spare your feelings while insisting you shouldn't put in the effort to spare anyone else's.
- harpiaharpyja 6y ago
  He isn't asking that though, so was there something you wanted to say about what the GP actually wrote?
  - gwilikers 6y ago
    > we have a mechanism for people who are truly assholes - be tolerant and ignore them. Why does the GP feel they can convey their criticisms to other parties as callously as they please, but reject that anyone should respond to them negatively?
    - systemvoltage 6y ago
      I think you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say reject people that respond to them negatively. You're more than welcome to criticize the criticizers with a counter argument. That's healthy debate. What you missed is the main thrust of my argument regarding the "Like" button you see on social media and gamification of an otherwise normal intellectual discourse. It brews mediocrity.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        The phrase that sticks out to me is “right-to-be-offended is rampant”. Because people do have that right — and complaining about them exercising it sure makes it sound like you’d like to express your opinions without worrying about others responding in kind.
        systemvoltage 6y ago
        I think it’s a balance and is not an absolute. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

brailsafe 6y ago

When I was 22, I thought my criticism was very important. A few years later, I often find it overwhelmingly detracts more than it helps. Critique ahould be differentiated, in that there's a much better chance that you're actually contributing, rather than just being perceived as trying to draw attention to yourself. The less you tell people they're doing something bad, with no substantial addition, the less you'll be perceived as an asshole and the more will get done.

gwilikers 6y ago

Reading this, all I can think is that you are just asking for everyone to spare your feelings while insisting you shouldn't put in the effort to spare anyone else's.

harpiaharpyja 6y ago
He isn't asking that though, so was there something you wanted to say about what the GP actually wrote?
- gwilikers 6y ago
  > we have a mechanism for people who are truly assholes - be tolerant and ignore them. Why does the GP feel they can convey their criticisms to other parties as callously as they please, but reject that anyone should respond to them negatively?
  - systemvoltage 6y ago
    I think you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say reject people that respond to them negatively. You're more than welcome to criticize the criticizers with a counter argument. That's healthy debate. What you missed is the main thrust of my argument regarding the "Like" button you see on social media and gamification of an otherwise normal intellectual discourse. It brews mediocrity.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      The phrase that sticks out to me is “right-to-be-offended is rampant”. Because people do have that right — and complaining about them exercising it sure makes it sound like you’d like to express your opinions without worrying about others responding in kind.
      - systemvoltage 6y ago
        I think it’s a balance and is not an absolute. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance