3 ms·

> If the org decides to fold, it will have to surrender all its assets No, actually. They could simply pay off their creditors and sell the assets to a new or

by stale2002 6y ago

> If the org decides to fold, it will have to surrender all its assets No, actually. They could simply pay off their creditors and sell the assets to a new organization that is formed in Texas. They aren't discharging liabilities. They are paying them off. If someone gets back all their money, they don't have a claim to anything further.

LatteLazy 6y ago
If the org is being prosecuted for fraud, their liabilities include that prosecution. They can pay off their other liabilities, and they can sell assets, but that has to be at market rate. No judge will tolerate them selling all their assets to a new Texas org to avoid accountability for crimes in NY.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > their liabilities include that prosecution. Yeah sure. But this whole case isn't about the New York Attorney General merely seeking fair restitution for liabilities or charging them with fair fines. Instead, what they want is to dissolve the organization. This second goal is what the NRA will be able to effectively avoid by declaring bankruptcy. They will be charged in court and pay the fines if they pay the fair prices for the fines for the fraud, ect, but by selling the assets they will be able to get around the real goal of the prosecution which is dissolution of their organization.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    I never quite understand the logic here. The lawsuits are a big deal for the senior officers of the NRA. They're the ones being exposed here. If the NRA dissolves, it's members are free to reform under a new org. They can do that in Texas though ironically NY would be better as (apparently) Texas doesn't punish leaders of groups who steal from their members... They might lose a few things enroute (the name, the url?). But it doesn't seem like it will make much difference to members. The leaders on the other hand are looking at jail if the company is found guilty (though that will rely on separate prosecutions).
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > members are free to reform under a new org That's what the purpose of this bankruptcy is. It is to transfer the assets and members to a new organization. Things like the Virgina headquarters and employees can't just be spun back up overnight. That would be a huge loss, if that happened. Thus, the purpose of all of this stuff is to move all the assets and members to a new organization, so there is as little friction as possible.
      - LatteLazy 6y ago
        Which is great, except no assets can be given over until the trial is over.
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
        stale2002 6y ago
        You previously just asked why they would want to take these actions. And I told you why. It is because none of this has anything to do with creditors making good faith attempts to get paid back. What this whole thing is about, is about an attempt by the new york AG, to dissolve the organization, and is not a good faith attempt to make creditors whole. The whole point of all this stuff, is to sidestep back faith attempts at dissolution, and instead go through the normal process for handling fines/fraud/ect. The dissolution is what is going to be evaded.

LatteLazy 6y ago

If the org is being prosecuted for fraud, their liabilities include that prosecution. They can pay off their other liabilities, and they can sell assets, but that has to be at market rate. No judge will tolerate them selling all their assets to a new Texas org to avoid accountability for crimes in NY.

stale2002 6y ago
> their liabilities include that prosecution. Yeah sure. But this whole case isn't about the New York Attorney General merely seeking fair restitution for liabilities or charging them with fair fines. Instead, what they want is to dissolve the organization. This second goal is what the NRA will be able to effectively avoid by declaring bankruptcy. They will be charged in court and pay the fines if they pay the fair prices for the fines for the fraud, ect, but by selling the assets they will be able to get around the real goal of the prosecution which is dissolution of their organization.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  I never quite understand the logic here. The lawsuits are a big deal for the senior officers of the NRA. They're the ones being exposed here. If the NRA dissolves, it's members are free to reform under a new org. They can do that in Texas though ironically NY would be better as (apparently) Texas doesn't punish leaders of groups who steal from their members... They might lose a few things enroute (the name, the url?). But it doesn't seem like it will make much difference to members. The leaders on the other hand are looking at jail if the company is found guilty (though that will rely on separate prosecutions).
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > members are free to reform under a new org That's what the purpose of this bankruptcy is. It is to transfer the assets and members to a new organization. Things like the Virgina headquarters and employees can't just be spun back up overnight. That would be a huge loss, if that happened. Thus, the purpose of all of this stuff is to move all the assets and members to a new organization, so there is as little friction as possible.
    - LatteLazy 6y ago
      Which is great, except no assets can be given over until the trial is over.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
      - stale2002 6y ago
        You previously just asked why they would want to take these actions. And I told you why. It is because none of this has anything to do with creditors making good faith attempts to get paid back. What this whole thing is about, is about an attempt by the new york AG, to dissolve the organization, and is not a good faith attempt to make creditors whole. The whole point of all this stuff, is to sidestep back faith attempts at dissolution, and instead go through the normal process for handling fines/fraud/ect. The dissolution is what is going to be evaded.