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So the people that built Rails, Django, Lift, various ORM libraries, and optimized libraries, such as Boost, all did it wrong? Hell, I hope everyone is that wro

by andr 18y ago

So the people that built Rails, Django, Lift, various ORM libraries, and optimized libraries, such as Boost, all did it wrong? Hell, I hope everyone is that wrong at least once in their lives. Edit: I also question the necessity or even the marginal utility of conferences.

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago
I think his point is that if your goal is to create a web site, building your own framework is a waste of time. On the other hand, if your goal is to create a framework, knock yourself out. I don't know that I entirely agree but it's a decent rule of thumb.
- andr 18y ago
  I'd say the best frameworks and tools in general appear as a byproduct of a bigger project. It's quite hard to start with a mindset of "I want to build a framework that does everything."
  - Hexstream 18y ago
    Not only is it hard to start with that mindset, it's noxious. Any framework should have a solid footing in reality, and that means developing it alongside a project that needs it.
raganwald 18y ago
No they weren't, but I suggest that the number of people who got a net win out of developing their own frameworks is statistically insignificant. We can both reel of lists of great frameworks, but that's survivor bias at work, because we remember the winners. For every Rails, there are hundreds or even thousands of terrible in-house frameworks all competing to be the subject of a DailyWTF post. Of course, this leads to an age-old debating point, namely if you can find a few exceptions to a rule, should you toss the rule out? Add a lot of fine print disclaimers? Or keep the rule and trust that anyone who knowingly violates it has a good reason in mind?
jraines 18y ago
Next time you're in the bookstore, check out the chapter on conferences in Keith Ferrazzi's Never Eat Alone. It will provide a good counter-perspective. At my own company, we had our founder and a director present at a recent conference, and the contacts and credibility they gained there will probably directly contribute to doubling our revenue over the next 2 or 3 years.

by andr 18y ago

LogicHoleFlaw 18y ago

I think his point is that if your goal is to create a web site, building your own framework is a waste of time. On the other hand, if your goal is to create a framework, knock yourself out. I don't know that I entirely agree but it's a decent rule of thumb.

andr 18y ago
I'd say the best frameworks and tools in general appear as a byproduct of a bigger project. It's quite hard to start with a mindset of "I want to build a framework that does everything."
- Hexstream 18y ago
  Not only is it hard to start with that mindset, it's noxious. Any framework should have a solid footing in reality, and that means developing it alongside a project that needs it.

raganwald 18y ago

No they weren't, but I suggest that the number of people who got a net win out of developing their own frameworks is statistically insignificant. We can both reel of lists of great frameworks, but that's survivor bias at work, because we remember the winners. For every Rails, there are hundreds or even thousands of terrible in-house frameworks all competing to be the subject of a DailyWTF post. Of course, this leads to an age-old debating point, namely if you can find a few exceptions to a rule, should you toss the rule out? Add a lot of fine print disclaimers? Or keep the rule and trust that anyone who knowingly violates it has a good reason in mind?

jraines 18y ago

Next time you're in the bookstore, check out the chapter on conferences in Keith Ferrazzi's Never Eat Alone. It will provide a good counter-perspective. At my own company, we had our founder and a director present at a recent conference, and the contacts and credibility they gained there will probably directly contribute to doubling our revenue over the next 2 or 3 years.