7 ms·

Try that in a country where there is no real goverment anymore or you are on the wrong side of history or you just have the wrong religion or you don't have eno

by lampe3 6y ago

Try that in a country where there is no real goverment anymore or you are on the wrong side of history or you just have the wrong religion or you don't have enough money to buy a visa because you need to first bribe a lot of people or your country is a warzone and there is no gov anymore. Yes you can apply for a visa but try that without any papers... Or if someone gangs have taken away your passport and other ID documents... Or someone comes to your home and threatens you that if you don't fight for them they will kill your family... yeah apply for a visa... which can take years... <irony> good comment! </irony>

blub 6y ago
AFAIK the EU isn't neighboring any countries without governments or which are a war zone. So in theory, there should be very very few people seeking refugee status in the EU - the odd individuals persecuted for their political beliefs or religion. There's a process for that which was working quite fine, before being subverted by economic migrants trying to gain refugee status, or actual refugees avoiding safe countries along the way and applying in Europe. So ironically exactly those persecuted people may have to wait much longer to clarify their status. The fact that someone lost their papers or had them stolen is their problem. The EU isn't responsible for solving everyone's problem, in fact the political conflicts within the EU are mainly caused by EU countries pretending that they can.
zokier 6y ago
Seeking asylum and immigration are two very different processes.
- niczem 6y ago
  ... no sh*t sherlock?! To legally claim asylum in a schengen state which has no external border to non-schengen states you literally have to fall out of the sky or travel into the country on a tourist visa. Guess what happens in the moment a crisis breaks out like it happened in Syria? Yes right, all the wealthy northern european states do not give out tourist visas anymore.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    > To legally claim asylum in a schengen state which has no external border to non-schengen states you literally have to... Again, seeking asylum and immigration are two very different processes. When seeking asylum, you don't get to pick the countries; first safe is it.
  - zokier 6y ago
    But the sub-thread was about immigration policies, not about refugee policies. It is perfectly consistent to have simultaneously lax immigration policy and harsh refugee policy (or vice versa).
  - LunaSea 6y ago
    They aren't tourists to that seems to make sense. They can however apply for refugee status in the closest refugee camp outside of Syria, usually in Turkey.
    - niczem 6y ago
      But there is also no possibility to ask for asylum in an embessy. Asylum is a right given by the constitution in germany and its not possible to fullfill this right because of the european border politics. Sure you can go to turkey - where you have no chance to legalize your status in mid- or long term. Where your children are not allowed to go to school.
      - LunaSea 6y ago
        So because Turkey doesn't accept them Europe should? A constitution doesn't allow for blanket emigration. There is always paper work involved to justify and motivate the request as well as quotas. Countries can't afford to house and feed limitless amounts off refugees.
mrweasel 6y ago
There's a huge difference between refugees, which is what you'd be if your country is indeed a war zone. The EU doesn't deal well with refugees, but let's face it, many refugees also don't want to be granted asylum in Romania, they want to do to France or Germany. Part of the problem is that refugees and migrants mixes at the borders. EU is also terrible at managing refugees, mostly due to not being able to agree to distribute the refuges equally across the member states. Of cause that would provoke some people, because apparently Slovakia or Bulgaria isn't better than living in a war zone, but Sweden and Germany is.
- emteycz 6y ago
  Yes, living in Slovakia can be as bad as living in a refugee camp even for Slovak citizens. It's rather obvious that people want to have better life, not the same they had - especially given Slovakian attitude towards non-white people.
  - vetinari 6y ago
    So what do you know about Slovakian attitude towards non-white people?
    - emteycz 6y ago
      Mostly everything - I live in the region. Slovakian people, similarly to Czech people (my own birthplace) are very unhappy about non-white people. Many of them are openly racist, thankfully that's slowly improving, but I still wouldn't want to be non-white here. It's better in the capital cities but even there you'll get weird looks and verbal attacks. Physical attacks are not unheard of outside the capitals.
      - vetinari 6y ago
        I've spend significant time in this region; I have a family there. There is a large Vietnamese community in these countries, well, since the Vietnam War. They are obviously non-white and they are not discriminated in any way. Do you know why? Because they are working hard, they encourage their kids to get good education, they don't abuse the social system and they don't get involved in petty crime. These things result in the majority population not having predominantly negative experience with them. Then there the Roma minority, which behaves in exact opposite way. This is not problem only in Czechia and Slovakia; the experience is same in the entire Eastern and South Europe, for exactly the same reason. So obviously it is not race problem. It is behavioral problem, other people not liking being abused and being careful about that. If you want to solve it, start on your end.

by lampe3 6y ago

blub 6y ago

AFAIK the EU isn't neighboring any countries without governments or which are a war zone. So in theory, there should be very very few people seeking refugee status in the EU - the odd individuals persecuted for their political beliefs or religion. There's a process for that which was working quite fine, before being subverted by economic migrants trying to gain refugee status, or actual refugees avoiding safe countries along the way and applying in Europe. So ironically exactly those persecuted people may have to wait much longer to clarify their status. The fact that someone lost their papers or had them stolen is their problem. The EU isn't responsible for solving everyone's problem, in fact the political conflicts within the EU are mainly caused by EU countries pretending that they can.

zokier 6y ago

Seeking asylum and immigration are two very different processes.

niczem 6y ago
... no sh*t sherlock?! To legally claim asylum in a schengen state which has no external border to non-schengen states you literally have to fall out of the sky or travel into the country on a tourist visa. Guess what happens in the moment a crisis breaks out like it happened in Syria? Yes right, all the wealthy northern european states do not give out tourist visas anymore.
- vetinari 6y ago
  > To legally claim asylum in a schengen state which has no external border to non-schengen states you literally have to... Again, seeking asylum and immigration are two very different processes. When seeking asylum, you don't get to pick the countries; first safe is it.
- zokier 6y ago
  But the sub-thread was about immigration policies, not about refugee policies. It is perfectly consistent to have simultaneously lax immigration policy and harsh refugee policy (or vice versa).
- LunaSea 6y ago
  They aren't tourists to that seems to make sense. They can however apply for refugee status in the closest refugee camp outside of Syria, usually in Turkey.
  - niczem 6y ago
    But there is also no possibility to ask for asylum in an embessy. Asylum is a right given by the constitution in germany and its not possible to fullfill this right because of the european border politics. Sure you can go to turkey - where you have no chance to legalize your status in mid- or long term. Where your children are not allowed to go to school.
    - LunaSea 6y ago
      So because Turkey doesn't accept them Europe should? A constitution doesn't allow for blanket emigration. There is always paper work involved to justify and motivate the request as well as quotas. Countries can't afford to house and feed limitless amounts off refugees.

mrweasel 6y ago

There's a huge difference between refugees, which is what you'd be if your country is indeed a war zone. The EU doesn't deal well with refugees, but let's face it, many refugees also don't want to be granted asylum in Romania, they want to do to France or Germany. Part of the problem is that refugees and migrants mixes at the borders. EU is also terrible at managing refugees, mostly due to not being able to agree to distribute the refuges equally across the member states. Of cause that would provoke some people, because apparently Slovakia or Bulgaria isn't better than living in a war zone, but Sweden and Germany is.

emteycz 6y ago
Yes, living in Slovakia can be as bad as living in a refugee camp even for Slovak citizens. It's rather obvious that people want to have better life, not the same they had - especially given Slovakian attitude towards non-white people.
- vetinari 6y ago
  So what do you know about Slovakian attitude towards non-white people?
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Mostly everything - I live in the region. Slovakian people, similarly to Czech people (my own birthplace) are very unhappy about non-white people. Many of them are openly racist, thankfully that's slowly improving, but I still wouldn't want to be non-white here. It's better in the capital cities but even there you'll get weird looks and verbal attacks. Physical attacks are not unheard of outside the capitals.
    - vetinari 6y ago
      I've spend significant time in this region; I have a family there. There is a large Vietnamese community in these countries, well, since the Vietnam War. They are obviously non-white and they are not discriminated in any way. Do you know why? Because they are working hard, they encourage their kids to get good education, they don't abuse the social system and they don't get involved in petty crime. These things result in the majority population not having predominantly negative experience with them. Then there the Roma minority, which behaves in exact opposite way. This is not problem only in Czechia and Slovakia; the experience is same in the entire Eastern and South Europe, for exactly the same reason. So obviously it is not race problem. It is behavioral problem, other people not liking being abused and being careful about that. If you want to solve it, start on your end.