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I honestly don't mind gun ownership and I agree about teaching it in high school. I think it should be harder to get a gun (you should need some training and sa

I honestly don't mind gun ownership and I agree about teaching it in high school. I think it should be harder to get a gun (you should need some training and safe storage etc). Afaik, the modern NRA opposes all gun control laws basically on principle. They are also deeply in bed with the GOP. That's not appropriate or helpful as it politicises gun laws and gun owners. So I won't pretend I wouldn't like to see the organisation fall. If the org decides to fold, it will have to surrender all its assets. So it either has no net worth or I don't see how they can just "run off" to Texas. Maybe they don't have any assets? I think the issue is, if you can pursue the org for fraud, you can almost certainly pursue the officers for fraud. So how long until NY does that and extradite those same officers back for trial? I hasn't actually seen this angle before but maybe that's why they're going after the org first: force the opening of the books, audit the whole thing, then you have all the evidence you need against individuals?

brandonmenc 6y ago
> the modern NRA opposes all gun control laws basically on principle Not anymore. That's purveyed by the GOA now. https://www.gunowners.org https://www.gunowners.org
stale2002 6y ago
> If the org decides to fold, it will have to surrender all its assets No, actually. They could simply pay off their creditors and sell the assets to a new organization that is formed in Texas. They aren't discharging liabilities. They are paying them off. If someone gets back all their money, they don't have a claim to anything further.
- LatteLazy 6y ago
  If the org is being prosecuted for fraud, their liabilities include that prosecution. They can pay off their other liabilities, and they can sell assets, but that has to be at market rate. No judge will tolerate them selling all their assets to a new Texas org to avoid accountability for crimes in NY.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > their liabilities include that prosecution. Yeah sure. But this whole case isn't about the New York Attorney General merely seeking fair restitution for liabilities or charging them with fair fines. Instead, what they want is to dissolve the organization. This second goal is what the NRA will be able to effectively avoid by declaring bankruptcy. They will be charged in court and pay the fines if they pay the fair prices for the fines for the fraud, ect, but by selling the assets they will be able to get around the real goal of the prosecution which is dissolution of their organization.
    - LatteLazy 6y ago
      I never quite understand the logic here. The lawsuits are a big deal for the senior officers of the NRA. They're the ones being exposed here. If the NRA dissolves, it's members are free to reform under a new org. They can do that in Texas though ironically NY would be better as (apparently) Texas doesn't punish leaders of groups who steal from their members... They might lose a few things enroute (the name, the url?). But it doesn't seem like it will make much difference to members. The leaders on the other hand are looking at jail if the company is found guilty (though that will rely on separate prosecutions).
      - stale2002 6y ago
        > members are free to reform under a new org That's what the purpose of this bankruptcy is. It is to transfer the assets and members to a new organization. Things like the Virgina headquarters and employees can't just be spun back up overnight. That would be a huge loss, if that happened. Thus, the purpose of all of this stuff is to move all the assets and members to a new organization, so there is as little friction as possible.
        LatteLazy 6y ago
        Which is great, except no assets can be given over until the trial is over.

brandonmenc 6y ago

> the modern NRA opposes all gun control laws basically on principle Not anymore. That's purveyed by the GOA now. https://www.gunowners.org https://www.gunowners.org

stale2002 6y ago

> If the org decides to fold, it will have to surrender all its assets No, actually. They could simply pay off their creditors and sell the assets to a new organization that is formed in Texas. They aren't discharging liabilities. They are paying them off. If someone gets back all their money, they don't have a claim to anything further.

LatteLazy 6y ago
If the org is being prosecuted for fraud, their liabilities include that prosecution. They can pay off their other liabilities, and they can sell assets, but that has to be at market rate. No judge will tolerate them selling all their assets to a new Texas org to avoid accountability for crimes in NY.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > their liabilities include that prosecution. Yeah sure. But this whole case isn't about the New York Attorney General merely seeking fair restitution for liabilities or charging them with fair fines. Instead, what they want is to dissolve the organization. This second goal is what the NRA will be able to effectively avoid by declaring bankruptcy. They will be charged in court and pay the fines if they pay the fair prices for the fines for the fraud, ect, but by selling the assets they will be able to get around the real goal of the prosecution which is dissolution of their organization.
  - LatteLazy 6y ago
    I never quite understand the logic here. The lawsuits are a big deal for the senior officers of the NRA. They're the ones being exposed here. If the NRA dissolves, it's members are free to reform under a new org. They can do that in Texas though ironically NY would be better as (apparently) Texas doesn't punish leaders of groups who steal from their members... They might lose a few things enroute (the name, the url?). But it doesn't seem like it will make much difference to members. The leaders on the other hand are looking at jail if the company is found guilty (though that will rely on separate prosecutions).
    - stale2002 6y ago
      > members are free to reform under a new org That's what the purpose of this bankruptcy is. It is to transfer the assets and members to a new organization. Things like the Virgina headquarters and employees can't just be spun back up overnight. That would be a huge loss, if that happened. Thus, the purpose of all of this stuff is to move all the assets and members to a new organization, so there is as little friction as possible.
      - LatteLazy 6y ago
        Which is great, except no assets can be given over until the trial is over.