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I’d love to watch a rugby team go up against an NFL team. The rules seem compatible enough (at least at the core). I’ve always wondered why rugby strategy isn’

I’d love to watch a rugby team go up against an NFL team. The rules seem compatible enough (at least at the core). I’ve always wondered why rugby strategy isn’t incorporated into NFL: long lines of backwards passing is legal and would completely mess up your average NFL defence lineup. But it seems it’s considered a “weird trick play”

piker 6y ago
Because turnovers are catastrophic in American football, and lateral passes have a high failure rate.
- onethought 6y ago
  They are catastrophic in rugby too. They built an entire game around it. They have a high failure rate in NFL because they clearly aren’t practiced.
  - piker 6y ago
    It’s just a different sport. In American football, the plays are highly orchestrated and many players are travelling near top speed out of pre-arranged formations and in tightly constrained routes. The forward pass is available, has a much higher success rate when thrown at a specialist player and a bigger payoff. Many of the team (the offensive line) aren’t eligible for such passes and therefor have been optimised by body type for blocking. The lateral pass is practiced in high school as part of the “option” offense because the difference between position players in high school is much lower and there may not be huge standout talent at quarterback (the passer) and wide receiver (the specialist recipient). The offense is sometimes run at the college level by schools with a low level of talent, such as those with high academic admissions standards and the military service academy. Running the option also generally involves jeopardising the health of your best player, the quarterback. This matters less in high school and bad programs where the drop off isn’t as significant. At better programs there are just better strategies with lower risks.
    - onethought 6y ago
      Thank you for the in depth reply, great points. But I often see that college/high school level play it as a one or two passes, usually thrown with varying levels of accuracy. It’s nothing like a rugby play. I take your point it’s a different game, but it also prides itself on unique playbooks. All of the things you pointed out are why a properly practiced rugby style play would not just surprise a defensive line, but they wouldn’t even have the correct types of players to combat it (i.e a heavy defensive line would be terrible)
  - philwelch 6y ago
    If rugby allowed forward passes, they wouldn’t bother with backwards and lateral passes as much either.
whoknew1122 6y ago
> "I’ve always wondered why rugby strategy isn’t incorporated into NFL: long lines of backwards passing is legal and would completely mess up your average NFL defence lineup. But it seems it’s considered a 'weird trick play'" From sideline-to-sideline, a football field is 53 feet across. To pull this off the way it's done in rugby, you'd have to do the following: 1.) Start the play 2.) Sprint to one side of the field 3.) Stop your momentum and then turn to the other side of the field. 4.) Set your feet and then throw a 35-60 yard pass (depending on how far the other player is, and how far behind they are from you) Meanwhile, the receiver has to: 1.) Act like they're blocking or running a pass route for a moment (otherwise the defensive player responsible for the receiver will just follow the receiver to their spot for the backward reception) 2.) Sprint to the reception point 3.) Wait for a the pass to travel the 35-60 yards 4.) Catch the ball 5.) Hope all this waiting hasn't given the defense an opportunity to get in position to smack them in the mouth once they catch the ball. It takes typically 10-15 seconds to set up this kind of play (which is an eternity in American football). And it has little chance to succeed. The rules disadvantage a backward pass. A backward pass is a 'live' ball. So if the receiver doesn't catch the ball and the ball hits the dirt, the team that jumps on the ball gets the ball. This is opposed to a forward pass, where the play ends if the receiver drops the ball. Also the quarterback typically isn't athletic enough to get to one side of the field quick enough to pull this off. So you usually have a wide receiver or running back -- who are quicker of foot -- do this. But then you're asking them to accurately throw the ball a long way. Which is something they're not used to. And once the quarterback gives the ball to the wide receiver or running back, the pass must be backward or it's an illegal forward pass. So you really, really have to make sure that the receiver is behind the passer. Which is easier said than done in the chaotic environment of a football play when players are 40-50 feet apart from one another. --- That being said, there is a play in American football that's similar to the rugby strategy -- it's called a screen pass. It's not quite as dramatic as throwing the ball across the entire field, but it has the same idea. You're getting the defense to run one way and then throwing the ball across the field to the place the defense just vacated.
TheCoelacanth 6y ago
Opportunity cost. Both sports need an alternative to just running with the ball, because always using a single tactic would be too easy to defend against. In rugby, the only option is backwards passing, so that's what they do. In the NFL, forward passes are a lower risk alternative to backwards passes, so backwards passes are a much less attractive option.

piker 6y ago

Because turnovers are catastrophic in American football, and lateral passes have a high failure rate.

onethought 6y ago
They are catastrophic in rugby too. They built an entire game around it. They have a high failure rate in NFL because they clearly aren’t practiced.
- piker 6y ago
  It’s just a different sport. In American football, the plays are highly orchestrated and many players are travelling near top speed out of pre-arranged formations and in tightly constrained routes. The forward pass is available, has a much higher success rate when thrown at a specialist player and a bigger payoff. Many of the team (the offensive line) aren’t eligible for such passes and therefor have been optimised by body type for blocking. The lateral pass is practiced in high school as part of the “option” offense because the difference between position players in high school is much lower and there may not be huge standout talent at quarterback (the passer) and wide receiver (the specialist recipient). The offense is sometimes run at the college level by schools with a low level of talent, such as those with high academic admissions standards and the military service academy. Running the option also generally involves jeopardising the health of your best player, the quarterback. This matters less in high school and bad programs where the drop off isn’t as significant. At better programs there are just better strategies with lower risks.
  - onethought 6y ago
    Thank you for the in depth reply, great points. But I often see that college/high school level play it as a one or two passes, usually thrown with varying levels of accuracy. It’s nothing like a rugby play. I take your point it’s a different game, but it also prides itself on unique playbooks. All of the things you pointed out are why a properly practiced rugby style play would not just surprise a defensive line, but they wouldn’t even have the correct types of players to combat it (i.e a heavy defensive line would be terrible)
- philwelch 6y ago
  If rugby allowed forward passes, they wouldn’t bother with backwards and lateral passes as much either.

whoknew1122 6y ago

> "I’ve always wondered why rugby strategy isn’t incorporated into NFL: long lines of backwards passing is legal and would completely mess up your average NFL defence lineup. But it seems it’s considered a 'weird trick play'" From sideline-to-sideline, a football field is 53 feet across. To pull this off the way it's done in rugby, you'd have to do the following: 1.) Start the play 2.) Sprint to one side of the field 3.) Stop your momentum and then turn to the other side of the field. 4.) Set your feet and then throw a 35-60 yard pass (depending on how far the other player is, and how far behind they are from you) Meanwhile, the receiver has to: 1.) Act like they're blocking or running a pass route for a moment (otherwise the defensive player responsible for the receiver will just follow the receiver to their spot for the backward reception) 2.) Sprint to the reception point 3.) Wait for a the pass to travel the 35-60 yards 4.) Catch the ball 5.) Hope all this waiting hasn't given the defense an opportunity to get in position to smack them in the mouth once they catch the ball. It takes typically 10-15 seconds to set up this kind of play (which is an eternity in American football). And it has little chance to succeed. The rules disadvantage a backward pass. A backward pass is a 'live' ball. So if the receiver doesn't catch the ball and the ball hits the dirt, the team that jumps on the ball gets the ball. This is opposed to a forward pass, where the play ends if the receiver drops the ball. Also the quarterback typically isn't athletic enough to get to one side of the field quick enough to pull this off. So you usually have a wide receiver or running back -- who are quicker of foot -- do this. But then you're asking them to accurately throw the ball a long way. Which is something they're not used to. And once the quarterback gives the ball to the wide receiver or running back, the pass must be backward or it's an illegal forward pass. So you really, really have to make sure that the receiver is behind the passer. Which is easier said than done in the chaotic environment of a football play when players are 40-50 feet apart from one another. --- That being said, there is a play in American football that's similar to the rugby strategy -- it's called a screen pass. It's not quite as dramatic as throwing the ball across the entire field, but it has the same idea. You're getting the defense to run one way and then throwing the ball across the field to the place the defense just vacated.

TheCoelacanth 6y ago

Opportunity cost. Both sports need an alternative to just running with the ball, because always using a single tactic would be too easy to defend against. In rugby, the only option is backwards passing, so that's what they do. In the NFL, forward passes are a lower risk alternative to backwards passes, so backwards passes are a much less attractive option.