6 ms·

An electric car should last at least as long as an ICE car... because they are simpler...

perl4ever 6y ago
Are you being sarcastic? People say similar things a lot in seriousness, but I don't think they know what they mean by "simpler". Is EFI simpler than a carburetor?
- Triv888 6y ago
  EFI should probably be compared with its electronic counterpart in an electric car... not a carburator. The transmission should be compared with nothing because an electric car doesn't even need one even though Elon tried to put one in Teslas. Also, an electric motor is simpler then a combustion engine and usually is a lot more reliable.
- blacklion 6y ago
  EFI is much, much simpler and reliable than carburetor. It has much less moving parts and exact dimensions, it don't need to be re-jetted for different conditions, etc. Yes, carburetor is more reparable, if you know what to do, but EFI is much simpler. It is different attributes.
  - perl4ever 6y ago
    The thing that's confusing me, is that apparently people who think things without moving parts and adjustments are "simpler", are basically looking at things from an end user perspective. Your response seems to confirm that. But it's not obvious to me what simpler for an end user has to do with more reliable. I mean, my smartphone usually dies in about a year or two. Actual phones in olden days didn't. So I still don't get why electric cars would be considered simpler in a sense that's relevant to reliability in expectation. Carburetors need adjustment and maintenance, but some cars with ECUs and EFI from the 80s are getting old enough that the electronics are actually failing. So how do you define "simple" and "reliable"?
    - blacklion 6y ago
      Modern electronics is very reliable. Yes its failure mode typically is all-or-nothing, you could not fix failed EFI control block with epoxy putty and ducktape, only with another block, but it is dead simple — reattach several connectors, and it's all. I'm traveling on motorcycles long distance, and I'm happy, that I could have box size of cigarette pack which will fix my problems with EFI/ECU on the road. But, really, I'm paranoid, I don't need one. And I've owned carburetor motorcycle — problems with carburetor were NORMAL situation, not exception like "lightning hit my motorcycle and fried up all electronics". Exact sizes and moving parts ARE problem. Yes, EFIs from 80s (35+ years) are deteriorating due do deteriorating of conformal coating and soldered joints. But how much times jets and membranes of actively-used carburetor should be replaced in 35+ life span? Especially, if gasoline is only so-so? Why replacing parts of carburetor is Ok and replacing EFI control box is not? You could not buy new EFI, but could buy repair kit for carburetor? It is sad, but it is not problem of technology per se and, again, is not about simplicity, but about vendor lock-in. It is another (but valid!) argument. And I have opposite experience with modern electronics: I'm still using my first (!) smartphone. As main one, not as backup. I'm using my workstation around the clock for 6+ years (I'm not turn off it for nigh, it works, really, 95% if these 6 years non-stop), my home NAS is built on platform which is 7+ years old (yes, HDDs are much newer, but HDDs are MECHANICAL!). My LCD monitor is 11+ years old (!) and still in perfect condition, and my PREVIOUS monitor is still used by my wife without problems... It is all anecdotal evidences, but I've replaced a lot of sprocket and chains on my bicycle over last 6 years. I need to replace sprockets and chain on my motorcycle each season. Yes, if only one transistor on my MoBo dies, I'll need to replace MoBo (and CPU, as it is old and you can not buy MoBo for it now) as one piece, I could not replace transistor as chain or brake pads (grr, really, I can, but it is not very common), but still my computer is much more reliable than my (expensive? almost top-of-the-line) bicycle and my motorcycle, and my EFI-equipped motorcycle is more reliable than previous one, with complex carburetor with many fine passages, calibrated jets, special membrane & stuff. (Edit: typos and grammar).

Are you being sarcastic? People say similar things a lot in seriousness, but I don't think they know what they mean by "simpler". Is EFI simpler than a carburetor?

Triv888 6y ago
EFI should probably be compared with its electronic counterpart in an electric car... not a carburator. The transmission should be compared with nothing because an electric car doesn't even need one even though Elon tried to put one in Teslas. Also, an electric motor is simpler then a combustion engine and usually is a lot more reliable.
blacklion 6y ago
EFI is much, much simpler and reliable than carburetor. It has much less moving parts and exact dimensions, it don't need to be re-jetted for different conditions, etc. Yes, carburetor is more reparable, if you know what to do, but EFI is much simpler. It is different attributes.
- perl4ever 6y ago
  The thing that's confusing me, is that apparently people who think things without moving parts and adjustments are "simpler", are basically looking at things from an end user perspective. Your response seems to confirm that. But it's not obvious to me what simpler for an end user has to do with more reliable. I mean, my smartphone usually dies in about a year or two. Actual phones in olden days didn't. So I still don't get why electric cars would be considered simpler in a sense that's relevant to reliability in expectation. Carburetors need adjustment and maintenance, but some cars with ECUs and EFI from the 80s are getting old enough that the electronics are actually failing. So how do you define "simple" and "reliable"?
  - blacklion 6y ago
    Modern electronics is very reliable. Yes its failure mode typically is all-or-nothing, you could not fix failed EFI control block with epoxy putty and ducktape, only with another block, but it is dead simple — reattach several connectors, and it's all. I'm traveling on motorcycles long distance, and I'm happy, that I could have box size of cigarette pack which will fix my problems with EFI/ECU on the road. But, really, I'm paranoid, I don't need one. And I've owned carburetor motorcycle — problems with carburetor were NORMAL situation, not exception like "lightning hit my motorcycle and fried up all electronics". Exact sizes and moving parts ARE problem. Yes, EFIs from 80s (35+ years) are deteriorating due do deteriorating of conformal coating and soldered joints. But how much times jets and membranes of actively-used carburetor should be replaced in 35+ life span? Especially, if gasoline is only so-so? Why replacing parts of carburetor is Ok and replacing EFI control box is not? You could not buy new EFI, but could buy repair kit for carburetor? It is sad, but it is not problem of technology per se and, again, is not about simplicity, but about vendor lock-in. It is another (but valid!) argument. And I have opposite experience with modern electronics: I'm still using my first (!) smartphone. As main one, not as backup. I'm using my workstation around the clock for 6+ years (I'm not turn off it for nigh, it works, really, 95% if these 6 years non-stop), my home NAS is built on platform which is 7+ years old (yes, HDDs are much newer, but HDDs are MECHANICAL!). My LCD monitor is 11+ years old (!) and still in perfect condition, and my PREVIOUS monitor is still used by my wife without problems... It is all anecdotal evidences, but I've replaced a lot of sprocket and chains on my bicycle over last 6 years. I need to replace sprockets and chain on my motorcycle each season. Yes, if only one transistor on my MoBo dies, I'll need to replace MoBo (and CPU, as it is old and you can not buy MoBo for it now) as one piece, I could not replace transistor as chain or brake pads (grr, really, I can, but it is not very common), but still my computer is much more reliable than my (expensive? almost top-of-the-line) bicycle and my motorcycle, and my EFI-equipped motorcycle is more reliable than previous one, with complex carburetor with many fine passages, calibrated jets, special membrane & stuff. (Edit: typos and grammar).