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The role of a parent is to help children grow into healthy functioning adults. Avoiding unnecessary conflict is something we should all strive for, avoiding all

The role of a parent is to help children grow into healthy functioning adults. Avoiding unnecessary conflict is something we should all strive for, avoiding all conflict is tantamount to simply not parenting. Frankly this entire argument feels like an intentional twisting of the common expression "their room."

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
I took it to mean their bedroom specifically, assuming they have a bedroom to themselves. I’m fine with having family “team cleans”: it’s a positive shared experience, and I can’t protest instilling discipline for tidiness either - I just draw the line at “tidy your room” as overstepping a crucial boundary that arbitrarily encroaches on our autonomy. By analogy, it’s like if my parents forced me to use a particular desktop wallpaper image on my computer, or restricting what I wore on weekends without a better reasoned argument than “because I said so”.
- Someone1234 6y ago
  > I just draw the line at “tidy your room” as overstepping a crucial boundary that arbitrarily encroaches on our autonomy. Teenagers don't have full autonomy, that's why they aren't adults. Parents exist to set boundaries and expectations for teenager's future adulthood (or more specifically their viewpoint on what a normal adult is). Many teenagers enter adulthood and realize their parent's expectations weren't who they wish to be. But generally their parent's version is a good enough starting point to discover who they wish to become as an adult. If new adults decide they want to live in a mess, at that time they can choose to do so because they hopefully understand the social, functional, and health consequences of that choice. An understanding a teenager may lack.
  - taneq 6y ago
    It's also about providing them with the necessary skills so that they actually do have a choice. If a kid never learns to tidy up, wash dishes, sort their laundry etc. then when they move out of home they may not know how to take care of themselves. If they have the skills and just choose to be a slob, that's on them. But many young adults seem genuinely lost.
- xyzelement 6y ago
  It's a stupid comparison, because keeping your stuff organized is an important life skill while choice of desktop wallpaper is irrelevant. Well, I guess if your desktop wallpaper was porn or nazi paraphernalia your parents would be totally right to teach you that it should be something else. Frankly your posts read like someone who doesn't understand that as an adult, it's your responsibility to have more wisdom and experience than your kids, and to help them benefit from it.
  - cperciva 6y ago
    as an adult, it's your responsibility to have more wisdom and experience than your kids, and to help them benefit from it. This is true, but it's also your responsibility to help them gain wisdom and experience. Making decisions for them may leverage your wisdom and experience wonderfully, but sometimes it's important to let them make mistakes and learn from them.
    - xyzelement 6y ago
      Sure. I am saying "the what", you are suggesting a "how." Hopefully the parent's wisdom and experience enables them to select the right approach for the circumstance. Using the "clean your room" example though, that's more of a skill and habit because it's not the kind of thing that's gonna feel like "a mistake to learn from" - perhaps until much much later. That's actually how it worked out with me, my mom is a messy hoarder and I grew up like that, but by the time I moved in with my now-wife I just brought my plant, computer and a small amount of clothes :) But my life would have been better if I was always neat and organized rather than figuring it out in my late 20s.
      - slavik81 6y ago
        Conversely, they might just leave home and feel joy at the freedom to finally live how they want to live. There's also something to be said for learning from the mistakes of others. I saw what smoking did to my grandfather. It destroyed his lungs and he slowly lost the ability to breathe. It robbed him of his strength, then his mobility, then his life. It made a stronger impression on me than a good role model ever could. Perhaps you particularly appreciate the value of a good habit specifically because you saw the consequences of the opposite.
- jedberg 6y ago
  It's their room but my house. Just like in my house I still have to follow the rules that my government puts on me, they have to follow the house rules. They have some autonomy as to how they want to do that, but they still have to follow the rules.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - NeutronStar 6y ago
    You don't have to go that far down history to find laws you disagree with. Do you sometimes drink alcohol? Have you ever went above the speed limit? Always done full complete stops? Always been on time at work? Life is full of rules we ought to follow. Doesn't mean we need to.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

DaiPlusPlus 6y ago

I took it to mean their bedroom specifically, assuming they have a bedroom to themselves. I’m fine with having family “team cleans”: it’s a positive shared experience, and I can’t protest instilling discipline for tidiness either - I just draw the line at “tidy your room” as overstepping a crucial boundary that arbitrarily encroaches on our autonomy. By analogy, it’s like if my parents forced me to use a particular desktop wallpaper image on my computer, or restricting what I wore on weekends without a better reasoned argument than “because I said so”.

Someone1234 6y ago
> I just draw the line at “tidy your room” as overstepping a crucial boundary that arbitrarily encroaches on our autonomy. Teenagers don't have full autonomy, that's why they aren't adults. Parents exist to set boundaries and expectations for teenager's future adulthood (or more specifically their viewpoint on what a normal adult is). Many teenagers enter adulthood and realize their parent's expectations weren't who they wish to be. But generally their parent's version is a good enough starting point to discover who they wish to become as an adult. If new adults decide they want to live in a mess, at that time they can choose to do so because they hopefully understand the social, functional, and health consequences of that choice. An understanding a teenager may lack.
- taneq 6y ago
  It's also about providing them with the necessary skills so that they actually do have a choice. If a kid never learns to tidy up, wash dishes, sort their laundry etc. then when they move out of home they may not know how to take care of themselves. If they have the skills and just choose to be a slob, that's on them. But many young adults seem genuinely lost.
xyzelement 6y ago
It's a stupid comparison, because keeping your stuff organized is an important life skill while choice of desktop wallpaper is irrelevant. Well, I guess if your desktop wallpaper was porn or nazi paraphernalia your parents would be totally right to teach you that it should be something else. Frankly your posts read like someone who doesn't understand that as an adult, it's your responsibility to have more wisdom and experience than your kids, and to help them benefit from it.
- cperciva 6y ago
  as an adult, it's your responsibility to have more wisdom and experience than your kids, and to help them benefit from it. This is true, but it's also your responsibility to help them gain wisdom and experience. Making decisions for them may leverage your wisdom and experience wonderfully, but sometimes it's important to let them make mistakes and learn from them.
  - xyzelement 6y ago
    Sure. I am saying "the what", you are suggesting a "how." Hopefully the parent's wisdom and experience enables them to select the right approach for the circumstance. Using the "clean your room" example though, that's more of a skill and habit because it's not the kind of thing that's gonna feel like "a mistake to learn from" - perhaps until much much later. That's actually how it worked out with me, my mom is a messy hoarder and I grew up like that, but by the time I moved in with my now-wife I just brought my plant, computer and a small amount of clothes :) But my life would have been better if I was always neat and organized rather than figuring it out in my late 20s.
    - slavik81 6y ago
      Conversely, they might just leave home and feel joy at the freedom to finally live how they want to live. There's also something to be said for learning from the mistakes of others. I saw what smoking did to my grandfather. It destroyed his lungs and he slowly lost the ability to breathe. It robbed him of his strength, then his mobility, then his life. It made a stronger impression on me than a good role model ever could. Perhaps you particularly appreciate the value of a good habit specifically because you saw the consequences of the opposite.
jedberg 6y ago
It's their room but my house. Just like in my house I still have to follow the rules that my government puts on me, they have to follow the house rules. They have some autonomy as to how they want to do that, but they still have to follow the rules.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- NeutronStar 6y ago
  You don't have to go that far down history to find laws you disagree with. Do you sometimes drink alcohol? Have you ever went above the speed limit? Always done full complete stops? Always been on time at work? Life is full of rules we ought to follow. Doesn't mean we need to.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]