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>having kids and the threat of potentially having kids undermines female income on a regular basis The only reason you see it this way is because of your prev

>having kids and the threat of potentially having kids undermines female income on a regular basis The only reason you see it this way is because of your previous point regarding women and children being a "package deal". There are societal expectations of men who have children. >women tend to support their husband's career at the expense of their own career development This is like saying "men tend to support their wives children at the expense of their own children". It's specialization and symbiosis. Women can benefit from "supporting" their husband's career. Ideally people support EACHOTHER in a relationship, and that includes tradeoffs in many areas of life, financial/career/societal/emotional/children. >cis women can potentially get pregnant and cis men cannot What a revelation. You're right, if only men could wrap their mind around this one then they might be able to fix all the issues that they maliciously create. /sarcasm

DoreenMichele 6y ago
The only reason you see it this way That's maybe half a step away from a personal attack. That's not "my opinion." That's how society tends to treat things and that observation is based on lots of reading of stuff with solid studies behind it. This is like saying "men tend to support their wives children at the expense of their own children". No, it's not. Not at all. For one thing, two people can be married and have their own children separately from a previous relationship. if only men could wrap their mind around this one then they might be able to fix all the issues that they maliciously create. Give me a break. This is not a position I am a proponent of. I rarely talk about the so-called "patriarchy." I do not advocate an idea that sexism is rooted in men being intentionally malicious assholes and I don't think I ever have. This is not a good faith engagement of the point at all. The fact that women can have babies tends to impact the lives of all women, whether they want babies or not. They get a lot of social expectations hung on them that are rooted in the idea of father as breadwinner and mother as full-time parent in part because that's a model that is more reliable than mother as breadwinner and father as full-time parent. By reliable, I mean it tends to withstand things going wrong that you can statistically bet on happening in some percentage of cases. Pregnancy can really seriously impact a woman's body and health in a way that becoming a father doesn't do to a man's body. As just one really minor example, she can be incontinent for a time after the birth and need to account for that, which is tougher to deal with if you have a paid job than if you are a homemaker.
- mcavoybn 6y ago
  The idea of "women have it tougher than men" is naive and toxic. You can try to justify it by saying that your ideas are "based on lots of reading of stuff", but it's obvious you are only interested in how this topic relates to your own ego. Women go through it in birth, I have never met a person who didn't acknowledge that birth is an absolutely painful and sometimes devastating process that is unique to women. Women die giving birth too. Should men feel ashamed for that? Maybe we should pass a law that makes it illegal to get a woman pregnant... After all she might die and if that happens then the evil man who impregnated her should be punished, right? Oh wait, nobody understands that only women get pregnant, so I guess that's the first hurdle here. HEY EVERYBODY, ONLY WOMEN CAN GET PREGNANT! Maybe that should be the next study: "Human beings with two X chromosomes are 100% more likely to get pregnant than those with XY chromosomes".

DoreenMichele 6y ago

The only reason you see it this way That's maybe half a step away from a personal attack. That's not "my opinion." That's how society tends to treat things and that observation is based on lots of reading of stuff with solid studies behind it. This is like saying "men tend to support their wives children at the expense of their own children". No, it's not. Not at all. For one thing, two people can be married and have their own children separately from a previous relationship. if only men could wrap their mind around this one then they might be able to fix all the issues that they maliciously create. Give me a break. This is not a position I am a proponent of. I rarely talk about the so-called "patriarchy." I do not advocate an idea that sexism is rooted in men being intentionally malicious assholes and I don't think I ever have. This is not a good faith engagement of the point at all. The fact that women can have babies tends to impact the lives of all women, whether they want babies or not. They get a lot of social expectations hung on them that are rooted in the idea of father as breadwinner and mother as full-time parent in part because that's a model that is more reliable than mother as breadwinner and father as full-time parent. By reliable, I mean it tends to withstand things going wrong that you can statistically bet on happening in some percentage of cases. Pregnancy can really seriously impact a woman's body and health in a way that becoming a father doesn't do to a man's body. As just one really minor example, she can be incontinent for a time after the birth and need to account for that, which is tougher to deal with if you have a paid job than if you are a homemaker.

mcavoybn 6y ago
The idea of "women have it tougher than men" is naive and toxic. You can try to justify it by saying that your ideas are "based on lots of reading of stuff", but it's obvious you are only interested in how this topic relates to your own ego. Women go through it in birth, I have never met a person who didn't acknowledge that birth is an absolutely painful and sometimes devastating process that is unique to women. Women die giving birth too. Should men feel ashamed for that? Maybe we should pass a law that makes it illegal to get a woman pregnant... After all she might die and if that happens then the evil man who impregnated her should be punished, right? Oh wait, nobody understands that only women get pregnant, so I guess that's the first hurdle here. HEY EVERYBODY, ONLY WOMEN CAN GET PREGNANT! Maybe that should be the next study: "Human beings with two X chromosomes are 100% more likely to get pregnant than those with XY chromosomes".