6 ms·

Ethics aside, I think the parent comment was referring to weird additives and oils in things like the Impossible Burger. That being said, I think it's only fai

Ethics aside, I think the parent comment was referring to weird additives and oils in things like the Impossible Burger. That being said, I think it's only fair to compare that to all the antibiotics, hormones, and fertilizers that your average low-grade ground beef has been exposed to or fed.

henrikschroder 6y ago
> I think the parent comment was referring to weird additives and oils Weird, how? Weird, because they have funny names that are hard to pronounce, and are therefore magically "unnatural" and bad for you? Or weird, because their effects on nutrition, digestion, and human health hasn't been widely studied yet?
- nkozyra 6y ago
  Both. This pursuit of tasting "kinda like meat" has incurred a lot of odd ingredients most people would normally eschew if they knew the extent of study in human consumption. Plain meat has a much better track record. I don't blame any meat eater for rolling their eyes at this stuff. And the decisions are sometimes odd. Like beet juice being added not for flavor but so it looks like the patty is bleeding. Meat eaters aren't sold because the veggie burger looks rare. The truth is meat eaters aren't, en massé, abandoning meat for a plant based alternative that provides little to no health benefit and costs just as much or more. Will we get there? Probably. But we're in a weird limbo area that is barely appealing to either side of the fence other than as a novelty.
  - Badfood 6y ago
    Meat has a better track record huh? Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. Those 'odd ingredients' don't seem so odd to me. Go through the list of a meat alternative one by one, you'll be surprised how mundane they are
    - nkozyra 6y ago
      > Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. [ citation needed ] I'm a long-time vegetarian but this kind of specious pseudo science doesn't sit right with me.
      - Badfood 6y ago
        Calling it pseudo science is more in need of a citation than the original statement.
        nkozyra 6y ago
        That's not how it works. If you're going to make a claim, support it.
        Badfood 6y ago
        The original claim was that meat has a good track record. Citation needed. NIH is brimming with publications to the contrary
        nkozyra 6y ago
        Sure. Humans have been eating meat for tens of thousands of years. That's a track record. The idea that something that's been consumed by humans since there have been himself having a better track record than something that historically hasn't isn't even controversial. Your turn. Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by meat, right? I've spent most of my life as a vegetation but dishonest histrionics like this do a disservice to the aim of convincing meat eaters to eat less meat.
        Badfood 6y ago
        It's about the amount of meat and dairy we ate... Next to nothing compared to today. Today's rates of cardiovascular diseases don't exist in mostly plant eating cohorts, nor do they in other largely plant based apes. Its not that complicated, I fail to see how this qualifies as histrionics.
esperent 6y ago
> weird additives and oils in things like the Impossible Burger. Here's the ingredients list for the impossible burger: Water, textured wheat protein, coconut oil, potato protein, natural flavors, 2% or less of leghemoglobin (soy), yeast extract, salt, konjac gum, xanthan gum, soy protein isolate, vitamin E, vitamin C, thiamine (vitamin B1), zinc, niacin, vitamin B6, riboflavin (vitamin B2), and vitamin B12. The only thing unusual is leghemoglobin, which is fermented soy protein.
- GordonS 6y ago
  Maybe if you are used to eating processed food, but as someone who almost always cooks meals from scratch, this list of ingredients doesn't look appealing. If I was buying a chicken breast, there wouldn't even be a list of ingredients. "textured wheat protein" - no idea what it, but it sounds disgusting, and very highly processed. I'd presume it also contains gluten? "potato protein" - again, it sounds like something highly processed. "natural flavors" - it doesn't specify exactly what they are, so I don't even know what I'm eating - I don't like it. "leghemoglobin" - you mentioned what this is, but otherwise it sounds like a lab-produced chemical. "yeast extract" - makes me think of marmite, which is one of the most revolting substances on earth! Aside from that, I think of the smell of yeast; I... don't think I want to eat that. "konjac gum" - never heard of it. "xanthan gum" - I think it's some kind of thickening agent? "soy protein isolate" - no idea what this is. The wheat and potato proteins don't have "isolate" in their names, so I assume this is even more highly processed. For some reason it makes me think of processes like "hydrogenation" - ways we mess around with foods to make them as cheap as possible, sometimes with negative health consequences. "vitamin E..." - makes me think the raw ingredients on their own are so unhealthy that they had to add a few crushed multivitamins. Overall: it sounds highly processed and devoid of nutrition. blech!
  - Clewza313 6y ago
    Konjac is a plant that has been eaten in East Asia for thousands of years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac And if you find yeast "revolting", I take it you don't like bread or beer either?

henrikschroder 6y ago

> I think the parent comment was referring to weird additives and oils Weird, how? Weird, because they have funny names that are hard to pronounce, and are therefore magically "unnatural" and bad for you? Or weird, because their effects on nutrition, digestion, and human health hasn't been widely studied yet?

nkozyra 6y ago
Both. This pursuit of tasting "kinda like meat" has incurred a lot of odd ingredients most people would normally eschew if they knew the extent of study in human consumption. Plain meat has a much better track record. I don't blame any meat eater for rolling their eyes at this stuff. And the decisions are sometimes odd. Like beet juice being added not for flavor but so it looks like the patty is bleeding. Meat eaters aren't sold because the veggie burger looks rare. The truth is meat eaters aren't, en massé, abandoning meat for a plant based alternative that provides little to no health benefit and costs just as much or more. Will we get there? Probably. But we're in a weird limbo area that is barely appealing to either side of the fence other than as a novelty.
- Badfood 6y ago
  Meat has a better track record huh? Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. Those 'odd ingredients' don't seem so odd to me. Go through the list of a meat alternative one by one, you'll be surprised how mundane they are
  - nkozyra 6y ago
    > Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. [ citation needed ] I'm a long-time vegetarian but this kind of specious pseudo science doesn't sit right with me.
    - Badfood 6y ago
      Calling it pseudo science is more in need of a citation than the original statement.
      - nkozyra 6y ago
        That's not how it works. If you're going to make a claim, support it.
        Badfood 6y ago
        The original claim was that meat has a good track record. Citation needed. NIH is brimming with publications to the contrary
        nkozyra 6y ago
        Sure. Humans have been eating meat for tens of thousands of years. That's a track record. The idea that something that's been consumed by humans since there have been himself having a better track record than something that historically hasn't isn't even controversial. Your turn. Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by meat, right? I've spent most of my life as a vegetation but dishonest histrionics like this do a disservice to the aim of convincing meat eaters to eat less meat.
        Badfood 6y ago
        It's about the amount of meat and dairy we ate... Next to nothing compared to today. Today's rates of cardiovascular diseases don't exist in mostly plant eating cohorts, nor do they in other largely plant based apes. Its not that complicated, I fail to see how this qualifies as histrionics.

esperent 6y ago

> weird additives and oils in things like the Impossible Burger. Here's the ingredients list for the impossible burger: Water, textured wheat protein, coconut oil, potato protein, natural flavors, 2% or less of leghemoglobin (soy), yeast extract, salt, konjac gum, xanthan gum, soy protein isolate, vitamin E, vitamin C, thiamine (vitamin B1), zinc, niacin, vitamin B6, riboflavin (vitamin B2), and vitamin B12. The only thing unusual is leghemoglobin, which is fermented soy protein.

GordonS 6y ago
Maybe if you are used to eating processed food, but as someone who almost always cooks meals from scratch, this list of ingredients doesn't look appealing. If I was buying a chicken breast, there wouldn't even be a list of ingredients. "textured wheat protein" - no idea what it, but it sounds disgusting, and very highly processed. I'd presume it also contains gluten? "potato protein" - again, it sounds like something highly processed. "natural flavors" - it doesn't specify exactly what they are, so I don't even know what I'm eating - I don't like it. "leghemoglobin" - you mentioned what this is, but otherwise it sounds like a lab-produced chemical. "yeast extract" - makes me think of marmite, which is one of the most revolting substances on earth! Aside from that, I think of the smell of yeast; I... don't think I want to eat that. "konjac gum" - never heard of it. "xanthan gum" - I think it's some kind of thickening agent? "soy protein isolate" - no idea what this is. The wheat and potato proteins don't have "isolate" in their names, so I assume this is even more highly processed. For some reason it makes me think of processes like "hydrogenation" - ways we mess around with foods to make them as cheap as possible, sometimes with negative health consequences. "vitamin E..." - makes me think the raw ingredients on their own are so unhealthy that they had to add a few crushed multivitamins. Overall: it sounds highly processed and devoid of nutrition. blech!
- Clewza313 6y ago
  Konjac is a plant that has been eaten in East Asia for thousands of years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjac And if you find yeast "revolting", I take it you don't like bread or beer either?